Stealing limped in pots question

If I'm in late position holding, let's say, J9s and I want to steal what would be a good sized bet? 5x the BB? 10xBB

This is one area where I'm having problems; stealing blinds and such.

Make your normal raise for that position. Tell yourself you have AK, raise appropriately, re-evaluate on the flop.

Keep in mind the type of players you have in the blinds though. If they call everything, and then will call down to the river having paired the bottom card on the flop, it might not be +EV to even try.

The reason I ask is because I was looking at ChuckT's post where he was chastising someone for 3BB raising when trying to steal. He called it a pot sweetener!

And when I've tried this, it seems like I get more callers than when I just call the bet.

If your question is more about raise sizing for position regardless of your cards, then it depends on your approach and your table.

Some advocate the same raise for every position, at a positionally aware table some raise less; 2 1/2 BBs from early and more, 3 1/2 to 4 from late. If the table isn't positionally aware, then 3 or 4 all the way around.

And then it depends on the standards for your table. If people tend to call 4X but fold to 6X, maybe 6X should be your standard for that session.


Edit: as for 3x for a late position steal, yeah I'd open in late for 4x. But it really depends on your table/level too.

It depends on the game, some games you play in it takes a 5xbb raise to get any respect for a hand. What Nine Lions is telling you though is don't raise a different amount to steal than you do when you have a good hand or you will be giving away a tell.

Okay, that makes sense. I just need to pay attention to my table and adjust accordingly. My stakes are usually low so this shouldn't be a problem.

Also, is there any difference in ring games vs. freerolls/tournaments?

dg1267 said:

If I'm in late position holding, let's say, J9s and I want to steal what would be a good sized bet? 5x the BB? 10xBB

This is one area where I'm having problems; stealing blinds and such.

Click to expand...

If you're saying you're first-in (no limpers) your standard raise is fine (3x/4x). If you're asking about raising with limpers in the pot add 1 bb/limper. So with 2 limpers I would raise to 6bbs on the button (4x + 2).

The only time you really wanna start stealing the blinds is late in a tourney. ITs best to take advantage of this whne you are close to ITM and no one wants to bubble, this is where I get very agressive rasing about 5bb it works well for me in this position

dg1267 said:

Okay, that makes sense. I just need to pay attention to my table and adjust accordingly. My stakes are usually low so this shouldn't be a problem.

Also, is there any difference in ring games vs. freerolls/tournaments?

Click to expand...

the short answer is yes, especially in Freerolls...I am not a cash player though I don't want to mislead you, in tournament especially micro limits like I play early you have to raise more early preflop than normal as there are lots of chasers early. When the Blinds start to ge really high you can lower your raises to achieve the same results as they be such a large percentage of peoples starting stacks. I mostly play $3 9man s&gos and by the time the blinds hit 100/200 you don't have to raise 4x any more 2.5 is usaully fine if you aren't outright shoving.

philber420 said:

The only time you really wanna start stealing the blinds is late in a tourney. ITs best to take advantage of this whne you are close to ITM and no one wants to bubble, this is where I get very agressive rasing about 5bb it works well for me in this position

Click to expand...

This isn't true of the table is very passive and pratically giving their blinds away...

One thing to add about stealing in a ring game is it may not be a very good idea to try and lower levels, especially out of position. You are going to have a hard time to get people to fold preflop and it is difficult/expensive to be cont bet bluffing very often since many will call with anything.

Thanks for the advice! Hillbilly hit what I was asking for on the button!

I don't really bluff much in ring games. I'm not quite there yet. I am mainly playing SnG's trying to build up a BR. Check out my blog and comment on anything you see that I'm doing right/wrong. It would help me out a lot.

dg1267 said:

Okay, that makes sense. I just need to pay attention to my table and adjust accordingly. My stakes are usually low so this shouldn't be a problem.

Click to expand...

Yep, what Hillbilly says is part of the standard; you increase for every limper already in the pot. You didn't mention limpers ahead so I, and maybe others too, assumed you knew that part.

Also, you say you play low stakes; this is a factor in that you are much more likely to get callers at low stakes. People, especially if they're already limped in or are in the blinds are much more likely to call a raise because they've already got money in the pot at the lowest stakes. This makes stealing less +EV at low low stakes as they'll also call down with bottom pair or an underpair so I tend to raise/steal less and when I do, I'll tend to raise a larger amount.