Speculative Hands....

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lost2qandisa

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Alrighty, so when to play a speculative hand? I was playing a cash game today at a 0.02/0.04 table. Yeah I know, big spender right? Anyway, I was in late position of a 9 player table. I had an 8 10 of diamonds. UTG fires off 3 X BB. It gets called by 4 other players. So, the pot stands at 0.60 with one more player to react and the SB to react. I decided to call. The pot is 0.72 and SB folds. Pot is now 0.74.

The flop drops 8 spades, 10 clubs, K diamonds. Sweeeeeet!

I had bought in for $2 so I only had like 0.75 in my stack remaining. I pushed it all in. I got called by two players. One had AK unsuited and the other had KJ unsuited. CHA CHING!

This hand worked out well for me. My thought process for the call preflop was:

A) 4 people in the pot, I am betting that two or three hold A,K, or Q or combination of both. That means that a lot of the top outs are gone.

B) If the top outs are gone, in theory, I have a better chance to hit mine.

C) If it hits, I will hit huge.

D) The hand I hold has flush and straight potential.

E) If I don't hit the flop, I fold.

Is this correct thought? Over time, would this hand in the same type situation give me a good ROI? It sure did in this case.

The reason I ask.... I tend to play speculative hands like this when I can fairly cheap and there are a lot of people playing.
 
LD1977

LD1977

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Alrighty, so when to play a speculative hand? I was playing a cash game today at a 0.02/0.04 table. Yeah I know, big spender right? Anyway, I was in late position of a 9 player table. I had an 8 10 of diamonds. UTG fires off 3 X BB. It gets called by 4 other players. So, the pot stands at 0.60 with one more player to react and the SB to react. I decided to call. The pot is 0.72 and SB folds. Pot is now 0.74.

The flop drops 8 spades, 10 clubs, K diamonds. Sweeeeeet!

I had bought in for $2 so I only had like 0.75 in my stack remaining. I pushed it all in. I got called by two players. One had AK unsuited and the other had KJ unsuited. CHA CHING!

This hand worked out well for me. My thought process for the call preflop was:

A) 4 people in the pot, I am betting that two or three hold A,K, or Q or combination of both. That means that a lot of the top outs are gone. - INCORRECT

B) If the top outs are gone, in theory, I have a better chance to hit mine. - SEE A)

C) If it hits, I will hit huge. - INCORRECT (you can hit a gutshot or a pair + backdoor draws, that is pretty much crap but do you know that?)

D) The hand I hold has flush and straight potential. - CORRECT

E) If I don't hit the flop, I fold. - CORRECT

Is this correct thought? Over time, would this hand in the same type situation give me a good ROI? It sure did in this case.

The reason I ask.... I tend to play speculative hands like this when I can fairly cheap and there are a lot of people playing.

See above.
 
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baudib1

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You are destroying any kind of implied-odds value you could have with a hand like this because you started the hand with 45 BBs. If you're going to play shortstacked then learn shortstack strategy. If you want to play hands like T8s then buy in full and learn how and when to play it.

Speculative hands work well in multiway pots when there is a lot of money behind after the flop action. You're not often going to flop two pair+ so what will happen is you end up stacking off with a mediocre pair or draw.
 
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lost2qandisa

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You are destroying any kind of implied-odds value you could have with a hand like this because you started the hand with 45 BBs. If you're going to play shortstacked then learn shortstack strategy. If you want to play hands like T8s then buy in full and learn how and when to play it.

Speculative hands work well in multiway pots when there is a lot of money behind after the flop action. You're not often going to flop two pair+ so what will happen is you end up stacking off with a mediocre pair or draw.

Ummmmmm, re read it. It was a 3 X BB call.
 
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lost2qandisa

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You are missing the point. This is not tournament play. The goal, I would assume, is to make money. The remainder of your stack does not really matter unless you are looking for a bluff bet. At micros, bluff is useless. The question was about playing the hand the same way over and over. Does it give good ROI over time? I agree that 90% of time it will lose on the flop. However, when it hits, it is usually big.
 
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baudib1

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No, I am not missing the point. You posted a hand in which you flopped two pair and got paid. That has nothing to do with the strategy of playing speculative hands -- any hand can flop 2 pair.

Speculative hands do NOT usually hit big. They usually hit medium. You almost never flop hands that beat good top pair or overpairs. What you do is flop a hand that has decent equity, and if you are multiway and have lots of money behind, you can often turn or river a strong hand. Or, you can use your equity to play aggressively vs. a single opponent with a weak range.

You are losing money playing vs. strong raises with T8s and 45 bbs. Period.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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did you really ask for opinions on your thought process then argue with the people who question it?

you can't play for implied odds when you're short stacked, it's a pretty big rule
 
L

lost2qandisa

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No, I am not missing the point. You posted a hand in which you flopped two pair and got paid. That has nothing to do with the strategy of playing speculative hands -- any hand can flop 2 pair.

Speculative hands do NOT usually hit big. They usually hit medium. You almost never flop hands that beat good top pair or overpairs. What you do is flop a hand that has decent equity, and if you are multiway and have lots of money behind, you can often turn or river a strong hand. Or, you can use your equity to play aggressively vs. a single opponent with a weak range.

You are losing money playing vs. strong raises with T8s and 45 bbs. Period.

So, had I bought in at the table max of $4, would that change anything? And, is it better to play speculative hands against larger fields?
 
abzdolc

abzdolc

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watch some videos in russian, about how to play this kind of hands
 
Arjonius

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Playing speculative hands doesn't automatically improve your game, although it does give you the chance to learn / practice a way to improve. Some players are able to play them profitably because they have enough of a skill advantage vs. their opponents. They aren't better because they play such hands. Rather, they can play them because they're better, especially in their post-flop games.
 
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