dwolfg
Visionary
Silver Level
Pot odds= Pot divided by the bet amount. Implied odds is pot odds adjusted for how much you believe your opponent will pay you off if you hit your draw. The better your opponent, the less implied odds you will have. I also suggest remembering the break even point formula which is 1/(pot odds+1). I like to use Phil Gordon's rule of 2 and 4 to determine your winning percentage. Multiply your outs on the flop by 4 and on the turn by two to determine your winning percentage. It is not exact, but pretty close.
FreeRollWannabe
Rock Star
Silver Level
Multiply your outs by 4 on the flop? - Why? (a serious question)
I thought on the flop... say you need a 4 to make your hand, you would have 4 outs and with two cards commin that would be 8 outs divided by the total number of unknown cards left... so on the flop it would be 8/47 or 45 assuming your opponent doesn't have ur out. so percentage way it would be like less than 20%
That's how I do my math...
So, lets say you are in the above situation, and the total pot ATM is 100 chips, therefore, your odds being 20% I would only call a bet of 20 chips or less on that flop in order to "get" my pot odds. I've assumed you did Not Add the bet to the pot prior to doing math, (because if you do that, no matter the bet, the math you do will give you at least 50% odds which isn't correct)
I thought on the flop... say you need a 4 to make your hand, you would have 4 outs and with two cards commin that would be 8 outs divided by the total number of unknown cards left... so on the flop it would be 8/47 or 45 assuming your opponent doesn't have ur out. so percentage way it would be like less than 20%
That's how I do my math...
So, lets say you are in the above situation, and the total pot ATM is 100 chips, therefore, your odds being 20% I would only call a bet of 20 chips or less on that flop in order to "get" my pot odds. I've assumed you did Not Add the bet to the pot prior to doing math, (because if you do that, no matter the bet, the math you do will give you at least 50% odds which isn't correct)
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Shufflin
Visionary
Silver Level
I think you are both saying the same thing
The Phil Gordon approach just approximates your odds of hitting your outs out of the deck (50) -- 2% per out per card coming, so 4% with the turn and river both to come. It says that 4-outer on the flop has 16% chance of hitting as opposed to FRW's 20%.
In terms of calling bets, though, I think it is incorrect to call that 20 chips because you are likely to have to call off more chips after the turn. So I would need around 10-1 pot odds here (8-10% chance of hitting on the next card) which does not come around very often.
Of course, I seem to jack up opponents' implied odds here by stacking off when my set loses to that Ace-to-five gut-shot completion!! Grrrrrr
Some of the odds I use are:
Completing a flush on the next card - 4:1
Completing an outside straight on the next card - 5:1
Completing a flush or straight on the next card - 2:1
Hitting a set or flush on the next card - 3:1
Hitting a set or outside straight on the next card - 4:1
The Phil Gordon approach just approximates your odds of hitting your outs out of the deck (50) -- 2% per out per card coming, so 4% with the turn and river both to come. It says that 4-outer on the flop has 16% chance of hitting as opposed to FRW's 20%.
In terms of calling bets, though, I think it is incorrect to call that 20 chips because you are likely to have to call off more chips after the turn. So I would need around 10-1 pot odds here (8-10% chance of hitting on the next card) which does not come around very often.
Of course, I seem to jack up opponents' implied odds here by stacking off when my set loses to that Ace-to-five gut-shot completion!! Grrrrrr
Some of the odds I use are:
Completing a flush on the next card - 4:1
Completing an outside straight on the next card - 5:1
Completing a flush or straight on the next card - 2:1
Hitting a set or flush on the next card - 3:1
Hitting a set or outside straight on the next card - 4:1
