Small Pocket Pairs - How Much is Too Much?

M

Mcash2

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 27, 2017
Total posts
35
Chips
0
Set-up: 6max, online, pre-flop, no reads, all players hold 100 bb, you're the dealer, you hold small pocket pair 44.

UTG raises standard table raise of 4xbb, and action folds to you, with only the blinds to act after. Your move?

I think for the average player, a call is the norm here to set mine. Let's say instead of 4xbb he raised 6x or 8x.

1 - what is the max you are willing to call to set mine in this situation?

2 - scenario 2 is same as first, but it folds around you in BB and it turns HU for your decision. Does this change the amount of raise you are willing to call?

3 - and lastly. Do you prefer HU or the prospect of a multi way flop for this set mine?
 
shody

shody

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Total posts
166
Chips
0
1. I wouldnt call more than 4bbs
2.HU or more players i still dont give more than 4 bbs
3.I preffer more players than HU because there are more chips to win
 
Q

quake419

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Total posts
34
Chips
0
Small pockets (whew)

Small pockets are dangerous to your health no matter who has them, you need to be conscious of whom you are playing with and how many are involved in the play from the blinds or the button are good plays for small pair pocket as a +:angel:
 
J

jnova007

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Total posts
1
Chips
0
Early game when you don't have a read on players, small pairs are a very speculative hand. If your purpose is to try and mine a set then I would try to limp into the pot as cheaply as possible.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
The odds of flopping a set are roughly 1 in 8.

I would never invest more than 10% of my stack to setmine, but I prefer to invest only 5-7% of stack (assuming the person who raised covers us, effective stack size if they don't cover us).

It is always better to setmine in position, and it's better to have reads on opponents before choosing whether to setmine or not.


Good targets to setmine against is loose passive calling stations, because if they raise, they have a big PP most likely, because they are so passive they are easy to read if they ever raise.

Other targets would be people just blasting away every hand.

In position is always better because we can control thepot size better.


Hope something in this helps.
 
M

Mcash2

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 27, 2017
Total posts
35
Chips
0
Thanks everyone. I will consider all thoughts. Sometimes it is hard to find that upper call line with small pairs pre-flop. I definitely always look at pf raisers stack level before calling. It they can't cover the odds I fold most of the time. Sometimes I make a bad push if they are shorties. Pushmoneys sometimes wait for a hand, but it is hard to tell which kind they are multitabling.
 
Amanda A

Amanda A

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Total posts
1,357
Awards
2
Chips
23
I think it's best to call with not more than 5% of your stack
 
L

LFC_yllnwa

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Total posts
1,500
Awards
8
Chips
16
I always try to see the flop if you allow the Bank! Hope set high!
 
H

Hansadsa

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Total posts
113
Chips
0
I completely agree, with a small pair of pocket cards I try to look at the flop for a small fee hoping to collect a stronger combination.
 
H

Hellokeko

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Total posts
40
Chips
0
As you said no reads, so 4x bigblind isn't bad for 44 but it all depends. To my best experience I would always call pre flop but long term it's a 50-50 at best scenario, so 50-50 is where I am you can win 7 flops and loose 7 flops, but long term for the smart player it's a fold for pocket 4s
 
Trick1988

Trick1988

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Total posts
255
Chips
0
I would not raise the stakes, maybe I would call, or maybe fold.
 
B

Blair29

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Total posts
85
Awards
1
Chips
5
If I'm on the button with no reads I would probably call with 44, but I wouldn't pay any more than 4x. Although if I think there is any chance of being squeezed from the blind's I'll just fold.

HU, really I'm sticking to 4x. I Might be closing the action but I am still OOP and in a HU pot you have no guarantee you'll get any value when you do hit your set so ideally I want to keep it cheap.

Ideally I want a multi way pot, it increases the chances that you can get value from a set when you do flop one. If you are heads up you are counting on your opponent to have an over pair , hit the flop hard or spew chips.
 
R

RobAnaes

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Total posts
17
Chips
0
Does the person raising not have to have a big enough stack to justify the odds of making a set?
 
Max Diver

Max Diver

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Total posts
1,051
Chips
0
With 44 on my hand I´ll try to see the Flop as cheap as possible. You need a good flop to continue on the hand.
 
schtiuky

schtiuky

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Total posts
502
Chips
0
Accordind with some info from diffrent sites you can bet like this 22 bet 2% of the stack you have 44 bet 4% and so on until JJ.
 
W

wacosteel

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Total posts
104
Chips
0
To your first question- my move? Definitely a call IMO. I'm not re-raising or folding here.



1. My understanding is that it's good to call for set mining purposes as long as you each have at least 10x that amount in your stacks.


2. No, but I'd play less aggressively post flop.


3. I would prefer h.u. if I had position post-flop, and multi-way when out of position.
 
J

Jack Reacher

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Total posts
758
Awards
8
Chips
0
In all three cases fold.
 
J

JoeBeagle

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 20, 2018
Total posts
1
Chips
0
Small pockets are dangerous to your health no matter who has them, you need to be conscious of whom you are playing with and how many are involved in the play from the blinds or the button are good plays for small pair pocket as a +:angel:

Set-up: 6max, online, pre-flop, no reads, all players hold 100 bb, you're the dealer, you hold small pocket pair 44.

UTG raises standard table raise of 4xbb, and action folds to you, with only the blinds to act after. Your move?

I think for the average player, a call is the norm here to set mine. Let's say instead of 4xbb he raised 6x or 8x.

1 - what is the max you are willing to call to set mine in this situation?

2 - scenario 2 is same as first, but it folds around you in BB and it turns HU for your decision. Does this change the amount of raise you are willing to call?

3 - and lastly. Do you prefer HU or the prospect of a multi way flop for this set mine?



To me, a small pocket pair is only worth the opportunity for a pay off via flopping a set. This is most effective with limpers, especially multiple limpers. If there are large raise(s), pre flop, I’m folding.
 
Halcyon1979

Halcyon1979

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 31, 2018
Total posts
9
Chips
0
Well obviously you're not going to want to raise or call anything more than you have with that hand and position. However I believe that in certain situations if you know the player who is raising fairly well then perhaps I might stretch my call a little further if I believed I could get good value by hitting a flop that favored me.
 
P

PKRNRS

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Total posts
718
Chips
0
1. I will cold call a raise with two left behind. I want the others in the pot for a set mine situation. The more the better. Try and build a pot. If I hit trips then I will min bet call if it's a dry board or not paired.
2. I'm still only calling or if I know my opponent is likely to fold I will represent and stronger hand. I may raise to see what he'll do. This is a good spot to start testing other players.
3. With small pockets I want a multi-way pot. They will be a little more easy to play because you know if you get much resistance then you should dump them.
 
dbchristy

dbchristy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Total posts
1,158
Chips
0
I enjoyed reading everyones answers I personally only like to limp or be HU with sm pket im way to tight
 
C

CallmeFloppy

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Total posts
1,296
Awards
2
Chips
1
1- I would prolly limit myself to 4 or 5 bbs.

2 - I would likely just try to see a flop.

3 - I much prefer multiple hands for set mining. More chips to win if I hit. More information based on others play as well.
 
Vilgeoforc

Vilgeoforc

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Total posts
877
Awards
2
Chips
0
I'd play a call, let the blinds come in game.
 
Top