Slow play with Trip Kings

I just busted out of a MTT when I floped trip Kings and I feel like I messed up any help would be great.

Blinds were at 1k and 2k and I had about 20k.

I called the 2k on the button with K J off and the blinds came along.

The flop was K 7 K rainbow and it got check around to me I had played tight for a while and I knew if I bet out they would fold and I wanted to try and slow play the Kings because I tend to bet out on a hand like this, so I checked.

Turn was a 10 of spades big blind bet 6K I called and small blind folded.

River was the Ace of spades for a board of Kd 7c Ks 10s As.

He bet 6k I went over the top all in and he showed the 9 4 of spades.

Is this a bad beat or did I give him to much room to get his runner runner.

Thanks,
-Dave

I would of jammed the turn when he bet 6k. Make it look like I was trying to bluff him off the pot and intice a call. I don't think what you did was completely wrong you just got coolered. You definetly could of applied some preasure on the turn. I think checking the flop is standard. The river just an unlucky card nothing much you can do. He probably would of called you on the turn anyways who knows.

DaveGogel said:

Blinds were at 1k and 2k and I had about 20k.

I called the 2k on the button with K J off

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This right here is just pure skill.

EDIT - Oh wait, this is learning poker, so I can't be a dick...

You should shove all in (or at least raise) on the button here with KJo 100% of the time. Winning 3K without a showdown when your stack is 20K is AWESOME. Giving the blinds a free shot to out draw you when your stack is so short is just brutal.

If this were posted in any other forum on this site, you'd probably have a parade of people yelling something like "IF YOU OPEN LIMP THE BUTTON AGAIN I'M GOING TO RAPE YOUR FIRST BORN SON WITH A CROWBAR!" or something like that.

wrong play

you should have small balled.. like bet 3/4 the pot.. even if they fold.. a win is a win.. never let chasers chase.. if their chasing make them pay to see the next card.. hope this helps

c9h13no3 said:

This right here is just pure skill.

EDIT - Oh wait, this is learning poker, so I can't be a dick...

You should shove all in (or at least raise) on the button here with KJo 100% of the time. Winning 3K without a showdown when your stack is 20K is AWESOME. Giving the blinds a free shot to out draw you when your stack is so short is just brutal.

If this were posted in any other forum on this site, you'd probably have a parade of people yelling something like "IF YOU OPEN LIMP THE BUTTON AGAIN I'M GOING TO RAPE YOUR FIRST BORN SON WITH A CROWBAR!" or something like that.

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+1

You limped in with KJo on the button? You opened the pot with a limp on the button? And then you gave free cards? You committed two cardinal sins, my friend. In that senario, I'm raising at least 3x all day long. If someone calls and I hit trips like you did, I'm shoving the rest of it in. Don't ever let people just hang around and see cards for free.

LizzyJ said:

You limped in with KJo on the button? You opened the pot with a limp on the button? And then you gave free cards? You committed two cardinal sins, my friend. In that senario, I'm raising at least 3x all day long. If someone calls and I hit trips like you did, I'm shoving the rest of it in. Don't ever let people just hang around and see cards for free.

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Why raise so big at this high of blind levels? (when a smaller raise will get the job done)... unless your plan is to auto call off to a shove when one of the blinds puts you allin (typically (depending upon stack sizes in tourney.. ie. if it's turbo it's a bit different if all the stacks are short).. but if stacks are deep you don't want to be raise/folding with 15-20bb sized stack.

OP.. what would we be doing here in this spot with most of our range.. I think (if antes in play.. we just ship it allin pre)... if we're on a monster we could consider raising 2.5x.
I'm assuming this would be on a micro buyin table which changes things a bit (imo). I would raise to 2.5x & then I'd cbet this flop all day long (I mean you're going to cbet here anyways even if you wiff it on a stack of this size.. so by all means when you hit large.. cbet as well!!).

Limping the BTN is not horrific (as other's have suggested.. hmm.. they're not tourney players either???). If we have super aggro players in the blinds we might consider limping the btn with part of our range. (MTT players these days in LL's will be shipping it over a btn or SB limp on the blinds (or BB)w chyt like A3s A5o any pr. etc.).

if your opponent was agressive player your play was ok, except i would raise preflop, especially if it was suited, until the flop...
if you just call and giving him the advantage of play to raise it...just reraise it and with only one spade there on the flop he wouldn t call...
second like some people said it with 20k on you with that high blinds 3-4k is great to take that...

I might limp on the button, but most of the time I would be looking for a small 2 - 2.5x raise. That should knock out 9-4 preflop, or raise the size you can win. Then shove on the flop. Yeah, you don't double up, but you should increase your stack by by 50% if there was 1 caller, which is a great result. By letting the other guy see the flop & turn for free, he was then calling for any price.

I think you gave him a little too much room to hit his flush.

But nice try.

Your getting lots of input, and different views on what to do here Dave. Limping on the button with this kind of hand is IMO more of a play for an experienced player who is good at judging villains range and flop texture. But I think raising PF is the way to go and as to how much, it really would depend on your read of the table so far, and what you want to accomplish by raising i.e keeping the LAG in while chasing the TAG out, or just gobbling up the blinds etc. But not shoving it in as an answer to BB 6k raise would be the biggest mistake you made, IMO. Look at the turn, what could BB have to make that bet? No way he has AA, he would have raised that already, maybe 10s, which you now own, but he would have raised that PF too, maybe JQ-AQ or hes got 2 spades. Either way, you stand to be ahead here almost certainly but there are a lot of cards that can kill you on the river, so you CANT allow him to get by with a 6k raise and a call from you.

And Poker Orifice takes another view to WV, lizzy and nats, even tho I think they all know a thing or 2 about poker. Personally I am either folding or raising here, and that would also depend on my read on BB and SB and their stacks.

Thanks for all the good feed back, im glad I could learn something from my mistake. For the people who recommended no open limping you are right im sure I was just trying not to commit myself to a hand like KJ off with only 20BB, if the blinds didnt have so much more than my 20k I might have made it 3x I just figured they are coming along anyways why would a big blind with 80k fold to a 20k stack making it 6k to go..if he hits at all he is knocking me out..but i learned my lesson ..thanks again.
Dave

I think I mis-read your post here (I thought you were sitting on 20bb's I think... even that or I hadn't had any coffee yet?).

With 10bb's otb there.... It's allin preflop. You're never raise/folding on a stack of that size (incidentally.. you really don't want to be ever raise/folding on a stack of <20bb's... unless it's a Turbo or Priv.Donkament where stacks are really shallow)... so you're never raise/folding... therefore... just shove.

This is a good example of why I'm not a big fan of slow playing unless I know I have the stone cold nuts AND I have a good read on an aggressive opponent. (I've had some huge wins this way, but they're very few and far between.)

Otherwise, you're probably leaving money on the table at best or getting drawn out on at worst.

DaveGogel said:

Thanks for all the good feed back, im glad I could learn something from my mistake. For the people who recommended no open limping you are right im sure I was just trying not to commit myself to a hand like KJ off with only 20BB, if the blinds didnt have so much more than my 20k I might have made it 3x I just figured they are coming along anyways why would a big blind with 80k fold to a 20k stack making it 6k to go..if he hits at all he is knocking me out..but i learned my lesson ..thanks again.
Dave

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You didn't have 20 BB, you had 10, and your 'M' was under 6. In tourney play this calls for aggression or folding but not any convoluted combination. So PF raise if you are gonna do anything, and when you hit, you shove. You don't push a little, you shove.

'M', if you are unaware, refers to how many orbits you can sit there doing nothing till you are gone by blinding out. It is calculated as your stack divided by the BB + SB + antes. (S/(BB+SB+A))***

Pretty sure there would have been an ante at the 1K/2K level, for simplicity lets say it was 500. 20K/(2k+1K+.5K) + 20K/3.5K = 5.7142....... Borderline panic time.

You are in deep doodoo here and the PF shove is the best and rightest move.


*** You could be in even worse shape if the tables are shorthanded and you consider that every hand is a 500 ante. Say the table was 5 handed, that is 2500 in antes alone per orbit, plus the BB and SB and your M is clearly in the panic mode (below 5) and you shove with almost any 2 cards assuming you are the first to act.

Me using a 500 ante is purely for example purposes, I sorta think it is hi at the 1K,2K level but the thinking will be the same.

you should have pushed after the flop
with just 10 bb the pot of 6K you should have pushed and taken the extra 3 bb
the chance that there would be a call are slim but at least you got some extra chips.

after the raise of the bb you could know that he had a straight or a flush draw at least.
you could have reraised allin after his raise like a check-raise and maybe
he would have folded but
the chance for that where not that good because he betted the pot on his draw.
next time also tell the stacksizes off those others in the hand, because that
can have major concequences on their gameplay !!

wolfie said:

you should have pushed after the flop
with just 10 bb the pot of 6K you should have pushed and taken the extra 3 bb
the chance that there would be a call are slim but at least you got some extra chips.

after the raise of the bb you could know that he had a straight or a flush draw at least.
you could have reraised allin after his raise like a check-raise and maybe
he would have folded but
the chance for that where not that good because he betted the pot on his draw.
next time also tell the stacksizes off those others in the hand, because that
can have major concequences on their gameplay !!

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Umm.. don't we want a call when we're miles ahead?
you could have reraised allin after his raise like a check-raise and maybe
he would have folded but
I don't think villain is ever folding here ^ (and...why would we want them to?). I believe your comment is focused a bit to much on being 'results oriented'... in an MTT if we can get all the chips in while ahead... HUGE BONUS (we don't want to push villain off the pot when we're this short when we make a mistake of limping but then flop a monster).

Everyone has pretty much covered everything, so here's my opinion on the best advice for the hand.

Preflop: On the button you should have been shoving with KJo and 20K. Blinds + Antes here are huge, pick em up when no one is betting.

Flop: With that flop I don't mind the slowplay... no straight/flush draw. I would check too to induce betting. (betting here isn't a wrong move though if you go that direction.)

Turn: With someone betting 6k after checking the flop I'm probably shoving, you can't make a respectable reraise without becoming crippled, and calling is something you should never be doing in a hand unless you're chasing (which you should never be doing at these blinds.)

River: Should have never gotten here, but no choice but to go all in after calling the turn. 6k on the turn is pretty iffy if your opponent had just a flush draw, but people come up with pretty sick plays especially if they have the stack to back it up and the right board.

Point is shove preflop... pick up antes and blinds... celebrate stack padding... ^_^

The next pt you play with KKK or another trio don t accept thay other player get the hand.

Open shove on the BTN cos ur short stacked or open raise 2.5/3xBB then jame the flop (even if its KKx when u hold KJ).

Why's it such a big rule not to open limp on the button?

bRiMaTiOn said:

Why's it such a big rule not to open limp on the button?

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Raising on button when folded to you
1. Apply pressure to blinds, put decision on them
2. Build pot when you are in the best position possible
3. Eliminate bottom portion of opponents range of possible hands
4. Steal blinds
5. Aggressive poker is winning poker
6. Shows strength, not weakness

Limping on button when folded to you
1. Increases odds of sb to call
2. Does not apply pressure to blinds.
3. You have no idea whatsoever of what the blinds hands' are
4. Can't steal blinds by calling
5. Is seen by many to be a weak, passive play/strategy

And I agree with the preflop shove suggestion.

AA has never won a single cent. People win and lose so play people, not cards. Poker is not a card game people play, it is a people game played with cards



That is true...!!!

I suggest not to get into the habit of limping, especially on the button. But with only 10BBs, you HAVE to shove. Betting 2.5x and folding to reraise would be pretty awful. That was 25% of your stack.