Slim value bet OR bluff?

vinylspiros

vinylspiros

PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Total posts
4,393
Awards
1
Chips
1
YO,
I was thinking that sometimes it is hard to understand when your opponent is slim value betting or bluffing. im talking about the bets that make u think: does he have a little something or is he just ACE highing? its a confusing little trick i think.

making a bet that looks like a block bet, a slim value bet and a bluff all in once.
When is each of these used best? and whats the best way to figure out which one the villain is using.

im referring to smallish type of bets, and also, when does the size distinguish it turning from slim value to a bluff or a blocker?
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
thats kinda the point of it, he gets value from his weaker hands and can bluff at a more effective sizing. post hand examples and we can go over them
 
B

Bowman

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Total posts
536
Chips
0
I would like to see some continued discussion on some posted poker hands.
If your opponent has the same smirk on their face as that woman who is on the trials right now, lmao won't go too far.
 
Rappyness

Rappyness

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Total posts
289
Chips
0
Online its incredibly hard to tell to be honest lol. Live is such a better place for poker tells :(
 
masondub

masondub

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Total posts
601
Chips
0
If your opponent has been betting alot and you see that sometimes he will bet the flop and maybe check/fold the turn or bet and fold to a raise on the turn, it makes it alot easier to make a call if the bet size is decent for what you have.

Now i usually dont make calls if i have nothing even if i know that my opponent might be bluffing. Gotta love that call from a guy with no pair and hits an ace on the turn or river to have you beat lol.
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Total posts
4,393
Awards
1
Chips
1
for example, i was playing a hand the the other day and i had :ac4: :kc4: on the BTN.

i raise 3,5X (at 10nl=35cents) , SB folds, BB calls.

FLOP comes :5s4: :5c4: :8d4: , BB checks i raise 35 cents he calls.

turn :3c4: , BB ckecks (pot around 1,40) ,i raise to 85 cents he calls.

River :2d4: . (pot around 3$) . BB raises to 0.35. Hero? this is the kind of bet that pisses me off cause i have no clue where hes at. i know i could have checked the turn here but i picked up some outs with that club so i decided to fire again and represent an overpair. his bet sizing on the river is just a mystery to me. should i go over the top? should i fold? is my ace high good?

im trying to get a feel of why sometimes people make these bets. i used them myself alot few weeks ago but solely as bluffs. is this guy gonna fold to a reraise here on the river? (lets pretend hes a complete unknown) whats the best action and what does his bet mean?

these are the types of bets im reffering to in the THREAD.
 
steveiam

steveiam

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Total posts
3,625
Chips
0
I think as he was in the BB he could easily be playing A 5..And puts you on a over pair to start with.So i think you can only call in this position.But ist easy to say that seeing the cards.
 
D

dragonflyamb

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Total posts
39
Chips
0
With those cards and such a small bet, I would be thinking that he had a 5 all along, or maybe a 4 6 and rivered a straight. He was calling your bets with a pair on the board , so he was clearly on a draw or had already hit the set. (Assuming he knew what he was doing. ) He was just letting you bet to build the pot. if he had bet on the flop with two 5's on the board you probably would've run for the hills. With his small bet on the river, I would have to stop and think if he had trapped me. Because of my reaction is to go over the top to a small bet, I could see me losing a lot of chips. What did you do here? Did he show his cards?
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Total posts
4,393
Awards
1
Chips
1
With those cards and such a small bet, I would be thinking that he had a 5 all along, or maybe a 4 6 and rivered a straight. He was calling your bets with a pair on the board , so he was clearly on a draw or had already hit the set. (Assuming he knew what he was doing. ) He was just letting you bet to build the pot. if he had bet on the flop with two 5's on the board you probably would've run for the hills. With his small bet on the river, I would have to stop and think if he had trapped me. Because of my reaction is to go over the top to a small bet, I could see me losing a lot of chips. What did you do here? Did he show his cards?
I folded:mad:
 
IntenseHeat

IntenseHeat

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
Yeah that one sucks. I think he might have had you beat. He probably suspected you of making a move on him and called with ATC. But then again, most players aren't going to defend with 3s and 5s in their hands. I migh have put him on an 8, J-8, Q-8, maybe 10-8 or something. He might have been holding A high himself and you would have had him outkicked. I might have paid the last .35 just to see.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
i call there just because of the price he set, ill take a closer look when im not playing
 
Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
Villain is probably terrible, most of these bets made by fish on river are weak holdings I have seen so I would think he has something like pocket 4/4 or a weak 8 here. Doubt he has the 5. It's fine to raise if you think he's weak but only if he can actually fold, I have raised these bets lots of times and they call and show bottom pair -_-. Also I would definitely call that river, you're getting great pot odds and you gain information on what type of hand he had. I doubt most villains are good enough to bet low on the river to 'induce' a raise. I have only seen a very few number of people do this and they were fish doing it 100% of the time so, very easy to read.
 
P

postflopper

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Total posts
449
Chips
0
I believe the term 'merge bet' applies to what the TS is talking about. When the bettor is value-betting very thin in the hopes of getting hero-called by worse hands or getting a marginal hand that's slightly better to fold.
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

PIRANHA-------->< (((º>
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Total posts
4,393
Awards
1
Chips
1
I believe the term 'merge bet' applies to what the TS is talking about. When the bettor is value-betting very thin in the hopes of getting hero-called by worse hands or getting a marginal hand that's slightly better to fold.
^^^^this+1^^^^^ so thats what its called?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
With his river bet sizing you have to call. You only need to be good around 10% of the time and he'll have a bluff at least that often imo. I'd call that bet with any Ax hand I got to the river with.
 
Top