Set vs set

K

kazzzman

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I want to know how you guys deal with this..

I'm on the button(26/23) and the CO (45/20) does a min bet, looks like a steal attempt (ats 39). I have 33 and 3bet 3,5 times.
He calls.

Flop comes: rainbow and 3 5 9
He checks, I bet 75% of the pot, because his fcbet is 15, so likely he's going to call.
Turn: K
He checks, I check too... Hiding my set and let him think the K scared.
River: 2

No flushes etc.. He checks, I do a valuebet of 40% of the pot, he raises to the pot.

For me, a snap call...

Do you guys always think here about: does he has another set?
Turned out he had KK and slowplayed nice :(

The next hand: 88 for me and again heads up vs this guy. I bet 3x BB pre flop oop to get him fold his limp call and force BB to fold.
He called.

Flop: 4 8 9
I check, now I want to slowplay, he fires 50% of pot, I raise to Pot. He calls.
Turn: 5
Good card for me if he had A5 orso.. So he checks, I bet the pot, again he calls.
River: 5
He checks, I do a valuebet of 30% and he raises me all in... Remember the first hand?!

Turned out he had 45, made a full house.

Would you guys played this different? And do you really would fold this??
 
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K

kazzzman

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Sorry, typo he had 95, not 45

Point being, you fold when think higher set is possible or higher FH?
 
micromachine

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These are coolers, I'm calling in both cases. Hand 2 especially I am never folding
 
Lucothefish

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What stakes are these and what's the effective stack sizes?

Hand 1 - Are you two trying to out-slowplay each other? See who can bet the least with their monster? I'm not folding river but I'm also never checking back that turn.

Hand 2 - "he fires 50% of pot, I raise to Pot" - do you mean you minraised or you 1.5x his raise? Both are too small but at least you're value betting this hand. Not folding this river either.
 
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kazzzman

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I'm at work and no access to hm2.

But what I mean: pot = 10
He bet 50% = 5
I raise to pot= 15
So 3 times his bet and thus the pot.

It's at 2NL
 
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gotchips

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im with micromachine these are hands that you almost cant get away from unless theres a good read on the player.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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I consider getting stacked by set over set is just a cooler.

Caveat: I play 4nl and most people stack off TPTK / 2pair / flush draw.

IMO you should not be considering making hero fold with a set on a non flush board where a straight is unlikely.
 
Worak

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I want to know how you guys deal with this..

...

The next hand: 88 for me and again heads up vs this guy. I bet 3x BB pre flop oop to get him fold his limp call and force BB to fold.
He called.

Flop: 4 8 9
I check, now I want to slowplay, he fires 50% of pot, I raise to Pot. He calls.
Turn: 5
Good card for me if he had A5 orso.. So he checks, I bet the pot, again he calls.
River: 5
He checks, I do a valuebet of 30% and he raises me all in... Remember the first hand?!

Turned out he had 45, made a full house.

Would you guys played this different? And do you really would fold this??

Since we have a FH eights over fives and the 2nd nuts (barring straight flushes) only losing to quad 5s I'd happily stack that guy lol.

Also use a hand converter to convert your HH to a readable format please.

So you won't get all mixed up either. :p

Generally I wouldn't ever fold sets on non flush, non straight boards (and even on them only occasionly depending on how the hand played).

Set over set is so rediculously rare that you can happily neglect that imo.
 
dj11

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As presented you win the 2nd hand but present it as if you lost it.

88855 beats 55599.

Few of us will give set over set much credence.
 
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inflnlte

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Yea, you won the 2nd hand as well. Only quads and pocket 9s beat you. But when Im playing, I really dont think too much about set over set. If it happens, then it happens - its just a little bad luck and nothing you could really do about it. Most games aren't too deep and if they are, the only thing you could really do is slow down a little but not fold. Only in plo, I really think about folding sets.
 
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MIShroomer47

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As presented you win the 2nd hand but present it as if you lost it.

88855 beats 55599.

Few of us will give set over set much credence.

I was thinking the same exact thing... you're talking like you lost the second hand... when in fact if you were holding 88 you should have won... so i don't understand why you'd be asking to consider a fold here.

Stacking off set vs set is just bad luck if you're not on the receiving end of it.. It was unfortunate that he spiked that K on the turn... but i do have one piece of advice that i have learned throughout the years... DO NOT SLOW PLAY... it will get you in trouble more often than it will make you profit. letting your opponent see cards for free is not a good thing. you're just discounting them to see another card on the river. at least make them pay for it... even it its just a value bet... at least its something and you're not giving hand outs
 
K

kazzzman

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Sorry but he had 59 instead of 45, I corrected in my post #2
 
dj11

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Seldom, if ever do we fold any boat in HE. In Omaha? Maybe, but not in HE. Yeah, we have all gone in with inferior boats, but it is rare.
 
Tropwen

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Both hands are just unlucky I will be calling in both cases BUT I never slow play sets EVER EVER and I'm very happy taking a pot that makes it to the turn when I have a set unless it turns into an all in situation I hardly get to the river with a set just because of hands like this and more times than not you will take this pot down if u keep betting

Hand 1:

I would of played it that same but u might of been able to get away from the hand if u bet the turn if u had a good enough read but I was expecting him to have A5 and drawing to a wheel which he would of got cuz u checked

Hand 2:

Really confused me on the flop u were OOP but on the turn u said he checked first then on the river u said u bet out and another thing if u had 88 u should of won that hand with 88855 that would of beat 55544 so I think u miss typed but other than that I would of played it the exact same way
 
dj11

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Sorry, typo he had 95, not 45

Point being, you fold when think higher set is possible or higher FH?

Like I said, few of us worry much about set over set, yeah it happens, but it is rare, and for a set vs set to happen on 2 consecutive hands is ungawdly rare.

We never fold boats. We may pray about baby boats on occasion, but we don't fold boats.
 
Sephiroth

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Like I said, few of us worry much about set over set, yeah it happens, but it is rare, and for a set vs set to happen on 2 consecutive hands is ungawdly rare We never fold boats. We may pray about baby boats on occasion, but we don't fold boats.
I was watching high stakes poker not too long ago and Johnny Chan and Phil Laak were in a hand. Phil had hit a set of sevens on the flop and Johnny Had hit two pair ACES and JACKS the river brought another ACE and Phil actually folded to Johnny's reraise.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
dj11

dj11

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I was watching high stakes poker not too long ago and Johnny Chan and Phil Laak were in a hand. Phil had hit a set of sevens on the flop and Johnny Had hit two pair ACES and JACKS the river brought another ACE and Phil actually folded to Johnny's reraise.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Fairly certain these two have serious reads on each other. Even tho most of us would know that JC can play atc, we generally don't think PL does. So JC sees PL has hit something and a set is possible, but he has flopped 2p. JC will come along always in that case. And PL would know that. When the A hits, PL pretty much knows he is beaten, but has to make sure, thus doesn't shove, leaving himself an out.

Point here is familiarity with ones villains.
 
SicKBeATz

SicKBeATz

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Fairly certain these two have serious reads on each other. Even tho most of us would know that JC can play atc, we generally don't think PL does. So JC sees PL has hit something and a set is possible, but he has flopped 2p. JC will come along always in that case. And PL would know that. When the A hits, PL pretty much knows he is beaten, but has to make sure, thus doesn't shove, leaving himself an out.

Point here is familiarity with ones villains.

Well not to take anything away from Phil Laak, love the guy, but on HSP or PAD he folds alot of times when he has the best hand, so it's only fair that he's right once in awhile lol.

Another thing is that in this spot when an A pairs it's more likely that someone has a bigger full house than say if a J1098 pairs the river. I still prob. wouldn't be able to make the laydown, but I don't have an "alien brain" like Phil either.
 
Jblocher1

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I'm calling almost 100% of the time in the second scenario. But in the first I might be suspicious of him. But most likely still call
 
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