The Road to Pro?

What is the typical road to become a pro (or at least really good as far as skill) poker player? How much time and effort (and of what sort) needs to be invested? What sort of training regimen, etc?

Also I was wondering, in terms of a guy only playing his fourth day of poker, would it be better to break in to cash SnGs on bodog or Full Tilt?

I'm also wondering what opinions you guys might have on my training system so far. Usually I spent about an hour a day so far studying video and articles, and about 3 hours at the play money tables on Facebook Zynga and Full Tilt play money.

its good to have a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio of play:study. you will learn alot by playing. but studing should also include reviewing you sessions as well a reading. posting hand histories(HHs) on this forum and posting your thoughts on other peoples hands as well. if i were you i'd read up on SNGs and play for playmoney for awhile. until you get used to it. i'd recomment playing at fulltilt and saving your hand histories. also there is a replayer called universal popopop its free and pretty cool to replay your sessions.

Excellent, I was actually in the process of coding my own Full Tilt "replayer" because I couldn't find any for free. This will save me a lot of trouble.

What should I be looking for and observing when I'm reviewing my sessions? Anything in particular?

As for your recommendation, why Full Tilt over Bodog? I heard Bodog was a bit lighter on the play difficulty.

Bodog and Carbon are supposed to be the softest sites for US players. At small stakes sng's it probably doesn't make too much difference.

I left you ~300+ word reply here but then the site timed out on me & I lost it.... arghh!!!!
So.. I will simplify it.

Read Phil Gordon's 'Little Green Book' (get it from library, or buy it.. it's cheap and well worth it (<< oh yah.. I forgot..I'm leaving out the details this time around).
Play cheap 9-player reg. speed SNG's (not turbos..and don't jump around from the 9's to the 18's, then over to the 6-handed turbos,etc.... oh yah.. I'm leaving too much info. here again).. Just do it!
Play some freerolls (hopefully get into some priv. ones). you will at least get to see alot of hands and who knows.. you might even pick up a few extra bucks to play with.
Play some MTT's (multi-table tournaments). Fulltilt has a few cheapos you can play (ie. The DailyDollar..~8,000+ entrants with a guar. prizepool of $10k.. runs each day at around 20:00). There's also a 10cent buyin rebuy ($1,000guar.) with 50cent rebuys (DO NOT REBUY...not going to go in details of why not.. .just don't do it... Don't Do it!). They run each day at 17:35 max. entrants is 3,600.. top 154 get paid I think.. but the payout is pretty good..especially if you final table it (I think 1st pays out over $300... not too bad for a 10cent investment!!). Players in that MTT are very weak (do not ever slowplay (Don't Do IT!!!).. instead you want to be betting out with your big hands in hopes of building big pots (ie. big hands.. build big pots!!!) as the loosecallingstations in that tourney will call you down with very weak holdings.
There's also The Ferguson ($1 mtt, runs at 01:30).

Read up on SNG specific strategy prior to playing the SNG's.

I wouldn't personally recommend playing on the play money tables (it's just not realisitic enough play to have much benefit at all... aside from maybe learning how to set up the tables, bet-slider, etc. etc.).

I'll send you a pm with some info. that should help to get you started.

As far as what is the cycle of going from zero-to-hero. "It depends". Some have a greater knack/aptitude for the game than others and will get there faster. Either way... to really excel in the game (and to gain a decent advantage over your oppponents) you will need to put in some lengthy studying of the game (won't go into details on formats for studying the game... I simply don't have the time to do it here).

GL on the tables!

Get on Fulltilt. I think it's 1,000% better than Bodog!!!

maybe it was 500words??,..maybe even more than that!!! (it was LOTS!, lol)

I think since you are at the beginning of your poker playing you shouldn't worry so much about becoming a pro.

I would figure that a lot of the proffessional players didn't intend to become proffessionals, but once they got good enough figured that they could make enough money from poker.

Personally I am not keen on becoming a proffessional poker player although I know that it will be the mains of extra cash while I study. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't have a proffesional attitude and shouldn't be striving to win a lot of money.

At the beginning stages you should maybe look at poker as hobby that you like to do versus a tight training schedule.

Don't take this the wrong way, because it's good that you're enthusiastic about the game and all, but...

If you started playing golf four days ago, do you think you'd ask a forum about going pro?

Hopefully the answer is "no." Now the important question becomes "what's the difference between a golf pro and a poker pro?" ... and why do you think it's so much easier becoming a poker pro?

Having said that, it IS easier being a poker pro. Golf pros play other professionals. Poker pros can live off of amateurs who want to take a shot at playing medium to high stakes. But to crush the games at a level where you can live comfortably off of your winnings takes a lot of practise, study and devotion to the game. Think "years."

Orfice: Thanks for the effort (doubly expended I might add!) I've had my post eaten by the inter-webs and I feel your pain. Thanks for the advice. That should help me really cull down what I should and shouldn't be playing in.

Flint: I suppose that's why I asked the question originally. I was more interested in what constitutes a professional attitude, and how does one set the bar to push for an ultimate ideal. I certainly see what you mean about most pro players not even really intending to become one.

FP: Well, given my personality, I think I probably would, sad as that may be. *grins* Not because I thought I was good enough to be a pro, but just as a theoretical stab at what finding out what it takes to be one. How does a pro become one, how does he or she train, how does he or she get better, etc. I suppose the same way a snotty nosed 12 year old playing catcher in little league might have sat down in front of his TV to watch and learn what he could from Johnny Bench is the way I'd like to approach poker. I may not have the chops to even understand half of what goes on with the higher level players in the game, but I want to find out what it took them to get where they are, what skills keep them at their level, and how I can emulate them to get better myself at whatever level I happen to be at. Does that make sense?

Poker Orifice said:

maybe it was 500words??,..maybe even more than that!!! (it was LOTS!, lol)

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If I'm writing anything lengthy for here i also write it in a Word Doc or in Notepad...

Just a little tip

i was only saying fulltilt over facebook. and just for the reason you can save the histoies and review and post them. i have no experiance with bodog but here its a good site full of fish. as to what to look for in reviewing sessions there's is so many things. to start i'd try looking for the hands you play. see if you are playing junk hands. look for big hands you won or lost and see if maybe you made a mistake. there is so much to learn in poker i really don't know what you should be learning first. as poker orifice says get the "little green book". IMO SNGs are the easier form of poker to learn and probably the safest way to build a bankroll. remember post and read hands it's going to make a huge difference in your game.

ZRTaylor said:

FP: Well, given my personality, I think I probably would, sad as that may be. *grins* Not because I thought I was good enough to be a pro, but just as a theoretical stab at what finding out what it takes to be one. How does a pro become one, how does he or she train, how does he or she get better, etc. I suppose the same way a snotty nosed 12 year old playing catcher in little league might have sat down in front of his TV to watch and learn what he could from Johnny Bench is the way I'd like to approach poker. I may not have the chops to even understand half of what goes on with the higher level players in the game, but I want to find out what it took them to get where they are, what skills keep them at their level, and how I can emulate them to get better myself at whatever level I happen to be at. Does that make sense?

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Makes perfect sense. And like I said, it's good that you're enthusiastic. I just wanted to make it clear that while it's perfectly fine to have the ambition, I think most of the people who claim they have the ambition and the drive think of poker as an easy game to get rich off of. And that's decidedly false.

If you want to make some extra money off of the game (we may well have different perspectives on this, but I consider $2k/month a modest side income), then it's definitely doable but still takes a few years of fairly intensive studying, playing and thinking about the game before you can comfortably reach that level.

Most people who manage to pull out monthly payments like that make the lion's share of it on rakeback and bonuses which basically boils down to playing roughly break-even poker for a gazillion hands a month which is not what most people envision when they think "professional poker player." It doesn't have to be that way. You can develop enough skill to win decent sums of money without having to break your back by playing ridiculous volumes of hands per month. That's what takes years, though.

Beat the lowest stakes. When you beat them, move up to the next lowest stakes. Rinse & Repeat until pro.

Or win some cheap sats into bigger tournaments and chip it with all the luck in the world. Get a sponsor, and try to win something after that...

Cardp: Ah, yeah, I definately agree with you on that one. The only good thing about the Facebook poker is that it has a friends list and everything, so you can easily jump in to buddy's games and such. I figured out how to get the poker replayer you sent me the link to to work with Full Tilt and I'll for sure start adding hand reviews to my to-do list.

Paulsson: Yeah, I see what you mean. Frankly the money thing to me, at this point, is a side issue. I've always viewed gambling of most kinds as a crap shoot anyway, and part of me still subconsciously does that with poker despite all the evidence I've seen to the contrary. Right now it's the thrill of the game (even with just play money) and the sheer enjoyment I get from playing. It's entirely possible I'm fooling myself and my ambition could just fall apart instantly at some random moment, but while it lasts I just want to see how far I can go and how to get there. It does seem like a very long, arduous road, like anything worth doing I suppose.

c9h13no3: Yeah, I suppose that's in a nutshell.

Blinds: Yeah, I think it's the winning after thing I'd have trouble with *grins*

You should really be sure that you're a winning player before you decide to try and make a living off it... otherwise you're going to end up taking a few bad beats or having a cooler where you cant win and it will end up putting you on tilt which will completely destroy your bankroll and dream of being a pro.... Also keep in mind when poker is your only source of income both bad beats and coolers are going to be much more stressful on you

Yeah, I see what you mean Jarod. I don't know if I would want to BE a pro, I suppose I was just wondering how to pros get the skills they have, and what constitutes professional level skill.

ZRTaylor said:

Yeah, I see what you mean Jarod. I don't know if I would want to BE a pro, I suppose I was just wondering how to pros get the skills they have, and what constitutes professional level skill.

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I think most of them just get to the point where they are making so much money playing poker that having a job just doesnt make sense anymore

Jarod1231 said:

I think most of them just get to the point where they are making so much money playing poker that having a job just doesnt make sense anymore

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This rang so true with me. During summer in between college, I'd get some kind of summer job. After turning 21, I spent a lot of time at the casino playing limit hold'em. It got to the point where my "job" was keeping me from making money. I'd be at work thinking, "Raking one freaking pot equals all of today's pay." I decided to quit that, and started putting in 40+ hours a week at the tables.

*nods* Makes sense to me.