Ring, SNG or MTT?

I am spending a lot of time trying to get my game better. I have played a lot the last 2 months or so, and really enjoy SNGs and MTTS. I have improved my ring game over the last couple of weeks, but I kind of play all nlhe games. What I dont know is, as a beginner, should I concentrate on one type of game, or is mixing them up ok? I am learning the basic strategies of Tournament Poker, but dont seem to grasp the basic Ring strategy, like starting hand range depending on position. What are the different opinions on mixing up my play? One type at a time? Is any one game better for the beginner? And links to any strategy sites are always appreciated. I have devoured all the articles here, and have had some book suggestions as well, which I then ordered. OK, thanks for any tips.

In my opinion there is one big advantage to ring games. That is that you can leave at any time if you need to.

I'd suggest choosing one game and playing that for a while, say a month, and then re-evaluate. The strategies vary a little bit between the games, due to the stack to pot ratios involved, and due to the payout structures. Getting used to one game first and understanding how to beat it, rather than trying to figure out how to beat all the games at once, is probably a good idea.

I've found that MTT/SNGs are more fun but I've I'm in the red from them. With cash games I'm seeing profits.

I dunno though because with a very good MTT game I think you can do well. There is a reason people win these tournaments consistently.

slycbnew said:

I'd suggest choosing one game and playing that for a while, say a month, and then re-evaluate. The strategies vary a little bit between the games, due to the stack to pot ratios involved, and due to the payout structures. Getting used to one game first and understanding how to beat it, rather than trying to figure out how to beat all the games at once, is probably a good idea.

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Ok, and btw, you have offered me a lot of real good advice since I've been posting here, first off a big TY for your time and very helpful and good advice. I read a lot of your threads too, very cool.
Back to topic.... Do you have a preference as to which game to start with? Or does that matter.

fletchdad said:

Ok, and btw, you have offered me a lot of real good advice since I've been posting here, first off a big TY for your time and very helpful and good advice. I read a lot of your threads too, very cool.

You're very welcome - I asked the same questions when I joined here, happy to pay it back!

Back to topic.... Do you have a preference as to which game to start with? Or does that matter.

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I'd suggest not starting w MTT's - either SNG's or cash. MTT's are difficult to get good at, and even when you get good you're looking at cashing in something less than 20% of the MTT's you enter. Both SNG's and cash games provide quicker evidence of your success/returns at a higher rate. I lean to recommending SNG's, I think it's easier to demonstrate success quickly in learning SNG's than in learning cash (though I personally prefer cash games).

Is there a bankroll (BR) to consider?

Personally, I am a big advocate for learning new games via play chips. Yeah yeah, there is a huge difference between play chips and real money games, granted, but the lessons anyone can learn via play chip play are valuable later. For instance, do the world's great players (like durrrr, Gus Hansen, the Unibomber and that hyper aggressive set) limit their play to premium hands? No. But how they got comfortable playing relative trash, and winning with it is a lesson a whole lot cheaper to learn via play chip games.

The biggest difference between play chip play and real money play, IMO, is the scared money aspect of real money play. There are of course other aspects involved, but the scared money aspect still out trumps most of the other differences.

For play chips I suggest getting above the min buy-in games. For example the 10,000 chip buy-in play tourneys (both MTT and SNG's) at FullTilt offer seriously good competition, approximately equivalent to $10 tourneys. Being able to afford the 10K games means you have shown patience in figuring out the low levels.

Play money Rush is very interesting. Still not sure if it is valuable, but as a learning tool, I'm finding it fascinating.

A lot of the current high stakes players starting off playing sng's. I think it is a great way to start. It is easier to learn the strategy and become succesful.

I don't recommend mixing the games when you are still learning.

slycbnew said:

I'd suggest not starting w MTT's - either SNG's or cash. MTT's are difficult to get good at, and even when you get good you're looking at cashing in something less than 20% of the MTT's you enter. Both SNG's and cash games provide quicker evidence of your success/returns at a higher rate. I lean to recommending SNG's, I think it's easier to demonstrate success quickly in learning SNG's than in learning cash (though I personally prefer cash games).

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dakota-xx said:

A lot of the current high stakes players starting off playing sng's. I think it is a great way to start. It is easier to learn the strategy and become succesful.

I don't recommend mixing the games when you are still learning.

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What they said. Personally, I started with SNGs and moved through Cash to MTTs. That is a fairly standard progression. MTTs are the most complex form of the game, although they do provide the possibility of large rewards for a small outlay.

slycbnew said:

I'd suggest choosing one game and playing that for a while, say a month, and then re-evaluate. The strategies vary a little bit between the games, due to the stack to pot ratios involved, and due to the payout structures. Getting used to one game first and understanding how to beat it, rather than trying to figure out how to beat all the games at once, is probably a good idea.

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I agree with this 100%.

For starting out I think that sticking to single table SNG is the way to go (9player) and 'regular' speed (not turbo for starting out). Don't even jump around to the 18's, 27's, etc., until you've played the 9's for awhile and have a good idea of how they play out. Later on consider moving to the 27's but know that there are some adjustments to be made.

1-table SNG's... Great way to start, and with top 3 getting paid, you are likely to at least win your buy in back.

MTT's, even the KO tournaments can really crush a bankroll, at least in my experience. Average players cash maybe 10-15%, and those percentages are not favorable if you are trying to build a bankroll in the long run. They are fun, though.

Cash tables are a different breed and call for a different approach than a SnG or MTT.

Even though you guys covered about everything, I just wanted to add that when you want to get into MTTs you could try many freerolls for free before moving on to the real MTTs...I know it's played differently but I do believe you would still benefit from it

slycbnew said:

I'd suggest not starting w MTT's - either SNG's or cash. MTT's are difficult to get good at, and even when you get good you're looking at cashing in something less than 20% of the MTT's you enter. Both SNG's and cash games provide quicker evidence of your success/returns at a higher rate. I lean to recommending SNG's, I think it's easier to demonstrate success quickly in learning SNG's than in learning cash (though I personally prefer cash games).

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dakota-xx said:

A lot of the current high stakes players starting off playing sng's. I think it is a great way to start. It is easier to learn the strategy and become succesful.

I don't recommend mixing the games when you are still learning.

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Egon Towst said:

What they said. Personally, I started with SNGs and moved through Cash to MTTs. That is a fairly standard progression. MTTs are the most complex form of the game, although they do provide the possibility of large rewards for a small outlay.

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^^ This.

I started out playing Limit Cash games in b&ms so when I transitioned to online I began with the freeroll & micro MTTs (ie: the Ferguson & the Daily $1). Now that I have a bit of a bankroll I primarily play SNGs (90 & 180 peeps generally)...I think it's like playing mini-MTTs (or that's how I play them anyway ).

I also play MTTs & will dabble with STTs (when I'm trying to satellite to the Midnight Madness).

I still play the freerolls but not because I'm trying to take it down or be ITM...it's the arena where I practice poker concepts (ie: aggression, blind stealing, bluffing, etc...) so that I can apply techniques I'm learning while continuing to improve my game.

As recommended by dakota-xx & slycbnew, it's best to become a specialist in one type of game prior to moving onto another...although there are basics to poker, nuances exist & it would be beneficial to have a strong foundation.

GL.

Thanks so much all for the posts. I have been concentrating on cash games lately, had a real good streak where I was leaving every game ahead, always 2-4¢ nlhe and maximum buy in. Sometimes a little ahead and sometimes 2-3 x my buy in. Then the downswing started, no cards at all, all my bluffs called, when I did land a premium hand it always got suked out - 2x AA cracked by donk hands in a short period, lost 2 buy ins on these 2 hands alone - so I think a round of SNGs would be a welcome break...lol
Dj11, BR is now $45 (down from 75, where it was 3 days ago...) I played play money a lot for close to 2 months b4 my first deposit. I was winnig real good, and found real money a totally different animal. I feel that I am a real beginner, but see improvments slowly coming, so want to keep plugging at it on the micro tables for money, the game is so different when the money is real, and I think, even with a -ROI, I am getting better, and see this low stakes play as my "tuition". Yesterday I played 2 sng, buy in $1. 1st in 1, 2nd in other. So that helps the confidence 4 sure. I have dabbled in the past in 3$ and 5$, did ok in 3, but in the end probably -ROI, never was ITM on 5, am I correct in thinking stay at 1$ (even tho the rake makes it hard to build BR even with +% wins)untill BR is at, say 100, then try the 3$? or should I try 3$ if I am ITM say 60+% after maybe 20 games or so?
And, although this has already been touched on above, what about small MTT, like 4x 6 players, or 2x6/2x9? There are 2$buy in for these at PKR, with the same basic player type, but much better ROI. Is my BR ok with that? Is this a dumb fish question I should have kept to myself?? lol Or stay at STT for now? And it seems the consensus is 9 - 10 seaters.?. & not recomended for what reason? - just curious about this, will take the advice and stay for the moment at 1$ full ring STTs-..
thanks again

I'd start with tournaments, because if you learn a few basic concepts you can make a lot of money. Cash game is a lot harder, because there's a lot more room to exploit errors that people make.

Egon Towst said:

MTTs are the most complex form of the game

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borg2man said:

I'd start with tournaments, because if you learn a few basic concepts you can make a lot of money.

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I think one of us must be mistaken.

Look for my 1K Post Regarding SnG's and their Advantages to MTT's here shortly.

fletchdad said:

And, although this has already been touched on above, what about small MTT, like 4x 6 players, or 2x6/2x9? There are 2$buy in for these at PKR, with the same basic player type, but much better ROI. Is my BR ok with that? Is this a dumb fish question I should have kept to myself?? lol Or stay at STT for now? And it seems the consensus is 9 - 10 seaters.?. & not recomended for what reason? - just curious about this, will take the advice and stay for the moment at 1$ full ring STTs-..
thanks again

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One of the reasons that you should stick to one particular game is (take the 9plyr SNG for eg.), the game has a certain flow to it, one that you'll become familiar with over time. 2-table SNG's, 6plyr. SNG's, etc. all have some variations to them (ie. with 2-table (18plyr) SNG, things like blind stealing prior to the two tables joining into 1 table is crucial,.. acquiring some chips while the tables are short-handed as you will need to have some chips for the final table so that you'll at least have some fold equity when shoving (or re-stealing). Lots of other little difference. I believe the reason why one would be best off to stick to just 'one' type & for that type to be the 9's is, it's a great venue to get a decent foundation to build upon.

Concentrated on that game you are making the most money!
It is a big difference if you play mtt, sng or cash game!
You should already know that because there are books how to play each type of game....

Well I think its good to concentrate on one game type and master it, but its also very fun to play other games like Omaha, H.O.R.S.E, Stud, Razz, etc... I think I play best in NLHE, but I also do very good on 2-7 single draw, and razz. I think I do better in tourney's than I do in cash tables because I always start great in cash tables then end up going broke later mainly because I don't take BRM seriously . Well best of luck, and I hope you do well on both tourney's and cash tables.

I would stay away from Ring Games. Choose either SnG's or MTT's and use these to improve your game.

They say that the fastest way to make money are ring games...Plus the factor that you can leave whenever you want makes it a good choice I guess.
I think that if you want to try it you should start out with the .02 .05 tables with something like 3$ no more until you get the game and move up in your buy-ins to a 100BB/5$ until you dominate these tables.
Afterwards, while making sure you have good BRM, start the same procedure on the higher tables and look for your success rate before moving up or down...Learn a lot, win a lot, lose little <---(Lol easier said than done right ?)

Egon Towst said:

I think one of us must be mistaken.

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I think I know who it is .

MTTs are different from SNGs, which are way different from cash. Playing MTTs will teach u very little about cash games, and vice versa. MTTs are also easy to run very bad in, pros feel cashing in 10-20 percent of them is reasonable, with a small BR and little experience its never a good idea to start MTTs, play freerolls and low buy in MTTs like the Daily Dollar on FT if you want the experience, but know that at higher levels play can be completely different from lower levels.

IMO stick to low buy in SnG's where variance is smaller, and lower buy in cash games to get a feel for them, like Elle_Yammine said.
Play Freerolls for your MTT fix, until you are a pretty confident player. Also PS does a 0.10c tourney with $50 added, which will be good practice for MTTs.