Relearning MTTs: a personal re-evaluation at how I approach the game

P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
A quick introduction:

I've been a member on this forum for quite a while, I've made many posts on here, and I consider myself to be somewhat well known. I have never considered myself to be the best player on this site, but I do believe I am a knowledgeable one. My results may not be as be as nice as other members, but I am completely fine with that. When I first started playing online, I had high hopes of winning big and making lots of money just like everyone else. However, I have come to terms that that is probably not going to happen anytime soon. I don't think it will never happen, there is always the possibility but its something I no longer expect to happen. For me, poker is recreational. I play it to have fun and to enjoy myself and that's it. And if I happen to win a few hundred here, a few thousand there that's great, I'm not complaining. If not, then that's fine also. I feel that this personal balance I've found not only keeps my emotions in check, but it makes the game so much more fun to play.

MTT's are my favorite games to play. They're not my best game, that belongs to SNGs because that is where I've made my most profit, but they're the ones I enjoy playing the most. I think it's because they're exciting for me; the thrill of possibly beating thousands of other players and a nice big cash-out in the end. It hasn't happened yet, but I can always hope. This year, I've decided to really try to and do well in MTTs and possibly win one. Again, I am not expecting to win nor do I think I'm entitled to win just because I've played so many and nothing significant has happened. But in order for me to do better in MTTs, I had to re-evaluate how I play the game. One thing I have realized very early on is that no matter what happens, we have no control about how other people play. They can play the complete opposite from you and there is nothing you can do about it. So, what can you do? Well you can complain and be bitter about it. Call them fish, donks, donkeys, or whatever and have this 'I'm right, they're wrong' mentality and probably never gain anything out of it. Remember, no matter how much you complain or rant or what you call them, it's not going to change how someone else plays. Or you could take a step back, look at how you play, and fix the leaks in your game. Just because you might play better than someone doesn't mean your always right. Maybe you over-value top pair, you chase draws too much, you don't know how to adjust properly, you play too tight, you play too passive, or whatever the case may be. While this will not change how anyone else plays, it'll definitely change how you play. It's the only thing you can control and plugging your leaks is very important when it comes to playing this game. A huge leak in your game can be just as bad as playing a bad opponent. The only difference is, it's much easier to see and complain about how bad someone else plays than it is to complain about your own plays. I see a lot of vents on this forum complaining about the opponent's play, but I never see anything like 'Vent: I chase too much and it cost me my tournament' or 'I play to passively and I don't know how to adjust to raising blinds'. Aren't these leaks/mistakes just as bad?

So, this is exactly what I did. I re-evaluated how I play MTTs and came up with a simple guide/set of rules on how I play. Every MTT I play, I make sure to read over this guide and I even keep it open just to glance over every now and then. I would like to share this guide with everyone here, but please keep in mind that it's from a personal view point. It's not a guide on how to win MTTs or anything like that, so don't view it as such. It's more or so a guide to ensure that I am playing the best that I can at every game. You may agree with some points, you may disagree with some points. Feel free to add anymore to a personal guide if you see fit.

The bold text are the 'rules'. The red text is a bit of more of an explanation on the 'rule'. These are not in any type of order.

MTT Guide

-Only join a game you can give at least 95% of your attention, too.

...This seems a bit silly to some, but it's so easy to get distracted. Especially when you're playing online. You can multi-table, read email, chat, watch videos, look at porn, or whatever you like to do. So, I think it's important that you really pay attention to what you are doing if you want to do well. The reason I say 95% and not 100% is because there will be somethings that may distract you from the game: phone calls, people at the door, kids, etc.

-Fold most your hands, Raise more of your hands, Call the least of your hands.

...This is to ensure that I am being selective with the hands I play and I'm not playing too passive, too tight, or too loose.

-Play tight early on, but open your hand range every time the blinds go up.

...I don't believe in hand charts, but I do believe in hand ranges. In fact, I think it's silly to say you should only play these hands when you're at such and such level, but not these hands. There are times when I'll fold AQs in mid position, but will raise with J9 in the same blind level. It is all situational. Also, opening your hand range with each blind increase makes it easier to adjust. If you understand which hands value go up and which go down, that also makes it much easier to adjust.

-Re-check your M ratio each time blinds increase.

...To solve your M ratio: Stack/(big blind + small blind) + (antes x # of players at the table). Knowing your M ratio will help in how you play and what hands to play. A range guide.

-Fancy play can be exciting, but it can also gets you killed. ABC can be boring, but it's usally the better option. Neither are always right and neither are always wrong.

...Pretty self explanatory. Some situations you'll have to make plays with speculative hands or you just might choose to and some situations you'll just have to play a basic straight forward game.

-You are not going to win the tournament in the first 10 minutes, but you can easily lose in that same amount of time. Play smart, but dont play scared.

...Just because you lost a big pot early on doesn't mean your tournament is over. Nor do you need to double up early on in order to have a better chance at winning.

-Try to avoid early all-in confrontations unless you: A) Have AA or KK preflop, B) You have the nuts, C) It's your only play

...This ties in with above. Very rarely will there be a reason you'll have to get all your chips in preflop in the early stages of a game. At this point, your M ratio is so high, you can easily wait for a better hand or situation if you need to.

-Always play to win. Never settle for anything less.

...This used to be a huge leak of mine. I would always just try to sneak up in the money and be happy with that. But I would always be short stack or never finish much better because I not trying to win. And by not trying to win, I was passing up many opportunities.

-If you are a short-stack, try not to pass up an opportunity to double up or better. It's better to take the chance and lose, than to fold and still be at the bottom.

...This ties in with above. Let's say you're in 210th place out of 213 players remaining and you have an M of 5 (in 5 rotations you will blind and ante yourself out of the game). The game pays out the top 150 players. You still have to get past 63 players in order to make the money, but it's clearly obvious it's going to very difficult to accomplish this if your stack doesn't increase. Not impossible, but very difficult. Now lets say you're in a situation where you can double up- if you win, you'll be around the top 180th/213 left and if you lose, it's no different if you lose in 210th place-251st place. The reward to put yourself in a better position if very much worth the risk.

-Pay attention to the payout structure. Pay attention to risk vs reward.

...This is similar to above except it deals with being in the money. Usually when you hit the money, the lower payouts pay the same amount for a certain number of players. Lets say in the same example from above you've made the money, but you're still pretty short with an M of 5. You're ranked 140th out of 150 players remaining. 150th-95th place all pays the same amount: $4. You find yourself in another situation to double up. Again, if you win you put yourself in a much better situation to win or at least finish better. You might find yourself in 120th place/150 remaining and still be in the same pay range but you're in a lot better situation than before. If you lose, you'll still earn $4 and it's no different than folding and losing a few rounds later and earning the same amount. So again, the reward for this risk is very much in your favor.

-Concentrate on your table. Worry about your stack size vs the blinds and the opponents' stack sizes at the tables. Worry about other players and tables when you get to them.

...Don't pay attention to who has the biggest stack if they're not at your table. It doesn't matter at all nor should it ever affect how you play. Adjust your game according to the players and stacks at your table only.

-Play one hand at a time. Once the hand is over, no matter what the outcome, what happened or what could have happened, it's over. Forget about it.

...Sometimes it can be easy to dwell on past hand. If you had called, you would've hit quads and made a ton of money. If you had folded, you wouldn't have lost half your stack. Whatever. Whatever your decision was, it's over and there is nothing to be done about it.

-Don't be afraid to lose.


...This is my personal favorite. I feel like my game and results have improved 100x by following this simple rule. As long as you're playing with in your bankroll means and following proper BRM, you should never be afraid to lose. If there is a fear of losing, you're probably playing outside of your BR. And if there is a fear of losing, it's going to affect your game and you'll most likely not be playing as well as you should be. In fact, losing a buy-in should be the least of your concerns if you are probably rolled for the MTT.

If your BR is small to start with than BRM doesn't really apply as much. If your BR is $5 and the smallest games you can play are $1 MTTs, there is not much you can do about it. Obviously it's not proper BRM, but I would advise following the same 'no fear' approach.


I can say that this little guide has help my game out a lot. I have more confidence when I play, I'm more comfortable, and I think I'm play way better than I ever have. Here is a recent MTT result from earlier today.

PokerStars Tournament #230841845, No Limit Hold'em
Buy-In: $1.00/$0.10 USD
4153 players
Total Prize Pool: $4153.00 USD
Tournament started 2010/01/14 9:20:00 PT [2010/01/14 12:20:00 ET]


Dear TRM_SHRiMP,

You finished the tournament in 80th place. A USD 6.64 award has been credited to your Real Money account.


In no way is it something to brag about, but on a personal level it's an amazing feat for me to reach top 2%. And I don't even play short handed, deep stack MTTs that often. In fact, I don't think I ever have before. So, this a personal victory for me when it comes to improving MTT game.

In conclusion, I'm sharing this with everyone to hopefully improve one's MTT game. You may know all of this already, you may do amazing already or you may be someone who doesn't do as well as they would hope. I may not have won a big MTT or gotten a big payout yet, but perhaps sharing this will help someone else reach that goal.
 
Last edited:
slycbnew

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Total posts
2,876
Chips
0
very nice post, thanks for sharing - I've bookmarked this to re-read the next time I sign up for an MTT...
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
very nice post, thanks for sharing - I've bookmarked this to re-read the next time I sign up for an MTT...
Thanks. LOL, you're ellipsis is throwing me off a bit.

Wow, I didn't realize this post was so long.
 
T

Tangerine 53

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Total posts
367
Awards
1
Chips
4
I think you're hiding your light under the old bushel philthy. This is very good stuff especially the bits about playing 1 hand at a time and not being afraid to lose. Starters to MTT's could do much worse than taking this as a guide.

Thanks
 
T

TopDonk

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Total posts
213
Chips
0
Excellent post sir.

I agree with pretty much everything, although the concentration bit I think its more optimal to lose a few % due to multitabling early in your session as the varience is just to big in MTTs and by the time you have got ot the middle/late satges you will have lost some tables and can then give the ones you have a chance to go deep in your full concentration.

TD
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
I think you're hiding your light under the old bushel philthy.
I'm not quite sure what this means...

Anyway, one thing I forgot to mention is that I had terrible tilt control when I first started. I don't think I posted a lot of vents or anything in the BBB because when I lost I never thought 'Let me go and post this!' it was always 'I need to play again! Again! And again!'. One hand would never put me on edge, but it would be a series of things that would build up. And if you asked those who I played with, when I blew up, I exploded. To me cash wouldn't matter to the point where I'm throwing away $200 at a 2nl table. For the longest time, I had this mentality that this wasn't unfair. That I deserved a win because I played so much and I never have. Why is it that I've played so many years and never win, but someone new can win thousands of dollars on their first tournament? It wasn't fair.

This post is about looking past that.
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,128
Awards
1
Chips
25
This post is about looking passed that.
FMP.

Another thing I should've added with the guide I follow is that I never try to play on auto-mode. Meaning, I don't make any predetermined decisions before it's my turn to act. Since each hand is different and situational, it should be viewed and played as such. There are times where I might fold a hand like 27s and there are times where I might call a raise with the same hand. Even though its the exact same bad hand, at times it will not be played the exact same way. True, 99% of the time you're probably folding the hand, but 1% you may not be.

This ties in with playing one hand at a time, every decision you make there should be a reason for it. Not because you're 'supposed' to or because that's what the book says to do. What ever you decided to do in any situation, you must have a reason to do so. Why did you raise this hand? Why did you call this hand? Why did you fold here? Why are you betting here? Do want them to call? Do you want them to fold? There should aways be a reason for whatever you do.

Also, knowing why you made your decision makes it a lot easier to get over past hands you've lost or may have won. Instead of thinking 'Why didn't I call? I would've hit trips on the flop, rivered a boat, and tripled up! Why did I have to fold this hand?' Well, what were the reasons for your decision? Maybe you're facing a big raise out of position, maybe a call with a bad hand would cost you more than half your stack and you wanted to wait for a better spot, or maybe you were facing a raise and a reraise. Have a reason and have confidence in your decision. The same thing can be said if you had lost a hand and you're regretting it. You have to know why you did what you did. Were you trying to bluff, you got raised, and you couldn't let it go even though you knew were beat? Did you commit too much early on with a mediocre hand and put yourself into a difficult spot? Try to figure out what you may have done right and what you may have done wrong.
 
the lab man

the lab man

CardsChat Irregular
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Total posts
3,557
Awards
1
Chips
1
Very Good Post Philthy. I especially like this Point!

You are not going to win the tournament in the first 10 minutes, but you can easily lose in that same amount of time. Play smart, but dont play scared.
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Total posts
6,794
Chips
0
Nice post, Phil. :)

If I had to take issue with any of your points, I would suggest that this:

Play tight early on, but open your hand range every time the blinds go up.

is perhaps a little simplistic. When effective stacks are deep, positional awareness assumes greater importance. Therefore, I would suggest: by all means play tight in the early levels from early position, but be prepared to play a wider range of hands from late.
 
Worak

Worak

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Total posts
6,024
Chips
0
Some very nice points there philthy - much alomg my line of thinking, too.

I know by now that MTTs (even more than STTs) are my favourite and I'm constantly trying to get better too.

Knowing whether you're good/profitable at MTTs is the hardest part imo.

I've played quite a lot last year and can't really say ...:rolleyes:.

Though my stats lean to "you're doing ok".

Gonna re-read your post later too, well done job.:icon_thum
 
T

Tonawanda

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Total posts
632
Chips
0
What an excellent guide! It's obvoius you put a lot of time into creating it. I will review it regularly. It's interesting to me to hear from someone with such a similar goal and motive in their approach to MTT's. Although also similar to the way I play, seeing it in print in such detail and with explanations, will reinforce the points you make for me. I have migrated toward smaller MTT's in the range of 500 and under entries. That's about 5 hours, and my limit at this time. Thanks and good luck.
 
D

donnavodka

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Great guide--thank you for sharing. I play only live MTT's and this will be quite helpful.
 
B

bubonicplay

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Total posts
219
Chips
0
Wow great post I see I have a lot to learn at mtts I like cash better because I can get up and sit down whenever I want but I'm with you in dreaming about finally winning an mtt and how happy I'll be if no when that happens :).
 
D

Dark Matter 13

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Total posts
13
Chips
0
Very Good Detail & Helpful Info

Here's some info a fellow player emailed me recently that I think applies also - what do you think?

The 5 P's in Poker, these are in order of both priority importance and functional use:

1) Patience - this is foundation for all poker play, specially if u r used to playing online. With it u also have the right temperament for playing. Specially important in a preflop hand driven game like Omaha and Omaha Hi/Lo. Also need it to wait for better position plays. Always ask yourself, "Am I playing this hand to win or bkz I just like the action or hope to win?".

2) Position - playing more in position gives u control of the action. Being in position lets u know if there is already a reraise in front of you. Here is something I do often: only call UTG with As or Ks hoping someone behind will raise. Otherwise, too often no one calls with an early position raise. This is also a great play short handed with only 2 or 3 players to disguise your hand strength.

3) Players - a) how many at table, b) what is table style with these players (best to play opposite most of time), 3) how many players already in hand ahead of you and what style/type of player are they?, d) can u put the player(s) on a range of hands?, e) if NL or tourney what is their stack size?

4) Pot - a) how large is pot?, b) how many players in pot?, c) has the BB/pot been raised or reraised?, d) what is your stack size in relation to pot size?

5) Poker hand u have - what beginners don't realize is that this is the least important factor. Why, bkz over hundreds of thousands or millions of hands, good cards will come and go. However, very important to know hand values, pot odds, expected value, fold equity, etc.
 
joe steady

joe steady

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Total posts
287
Chips
0
Nice bump, DM, and a great sketch of what kind of thought processes you should be going through during a hand. Thanks!
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Total posts
5,278
Awards
8
CA
Chips
860
Great post philthy! After reading it I felt inspired and it got the MTT juices flowing for me again.

Then I read your signature line and now am confused. lol
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

Jammin................
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Total posts
11,720
Awards
2
Chips
140
Great post. I tried to subscribe but cant so I will say "grate post" and be subscribed that way. I want this in my subscriptions to re read it.
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Total posts
491
Chips
0
Always play to win. Never settle for anything less.

Pay attention to the payout structure. Pay attention to risk vs reward.

Don't be afraid to lose.

These three are the tips that resonate the most with me. I have a post in the tournament section about my journey into the MTT world and these items I put in the quote are the ones that I needed to learn the most. To me, this says be aware of your situation at all times and don't be afraid to make a move if you think you've got them beat. The reality is, in order to cash, you will have to win some coinflips at some point so don't be afraid. Excellent post sir :D
 
PNJs_dad

PNJs_dad

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2009
Total posts
403
Chips
0
Very nice post...something that everyone can take something from. Thanks for posting. :)
 
E

eamesy4980

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Total posts
90
Chips
0
A great guide. But without being too critical i think thats all it is, its a guide. When at the table in heat of battle, when all emotions flying around depending on how you deal with emotions effect your play and how you stick to this guide. For example ...Just because you lost a big pot early on doesn't mean your tournament is over. Nor do you need to double up early on in order to have a better chance at winning.

This is a guide to help you play better so you used to do these things? so trying prevent it? If you lose a lot of chips early on in a tourny then a guide youve wrote isnt going to prevent you from tilting. If you used to tilt and thats how you get when in the situation a guide isnt going to stop that. No doubt after every time youve tilted youve said " If i lose a lot of my stack i wont go on tilt" A guide cant and wont change the way you play due to emotions. I can set up a guide on how i should play cash games or sit n gos. But in heat of battle or just had bad beat if i go o tilt and take them badly that guide isnt going to stop me from doing what i used to do and chucking my chips in with the worst of it. I think you have to try to deal with the emotional and tilt side to the game. Like the last point, when hand is over its over forget it no matter what the outcome. Yes thats easy to put on a guide and yes you can believe you will stick to it but when on poker table will you really stick to that? when your full gets beaten by quads ina huge pot. when some donk has just sucked out on you with a 1 outer. Can you just as easily forget about it? Id work on emotional side of the game and practice at the points in the guide first before trying use it as stone. The emotional points wont work unless work on them. Then when wont work the rest of guide is pointless as you certainly wont be playing tight or playing ABC poker. This is what i beleive in the fundamental downfall in poker players. Its not their skill nor their anility to play the game, it is their tilt and their patience which then goes on to affect their skill and ability. A guide just wont be stuck to under many circumstances.
 
Top 10 Games
Top