Razz hand rankings

dtexhol567 · Jan 22, 2013

Hi everyone,

I have a question about Razz. I'm playing the game online and I want to confirm a few things about the hand rankings. Some of the below may sound a little simple...but it's for clarification purposes:

1) Ace is the low card, correct?
2) Two pairs is better than full house, correct?
3) So: 554KK beats AA333, right?

If I'm playing online, the machine automatically finds the best five cards for me.

4) So if I get: 222KKKK, it should pick out 222KK, right?
5) And if I get 2224KKK, it should pick out 224KK, right?

Thanks, and hopefully someone will be able to say YYYYY to me

Stoush

the lab man · Jan 22, 2013

Ace is low
and never never never did I say never get involved with with the hands you posted.
If you so do please come and play on my table, you will find me on FT playing razz

dtexhol567 · Jan 22, 2013

Of course I'm not trying to get those hands! I just want clarification about the rules...

OzExorcist · Jan 22, 2013

Yep, all points 1 through 5 are correct. Welcome to the twisted world or Razz, feel free to check your sanity at the door

CrayBish · Jan 22, 2013

HU4ROLLZ? lol

Always wanted to say that, never got the chance....till now! Seriously would LOVE to play with you anytime, friend!

micalupagoo · Jan 22, 2013

lowest 5 cards win
a2345 being best hand possible
if your holding full houses and such-FOLD
i dont even start a hand without 2 of the lowest cards,
prefer 3 cards under 8 to start
when you start getting pairs and face cards- FOLD
if nobody has a 5 card hand then lowest 4 cards win- very rare tho
2224KKK should be folded by 5th card in-4th even
dont chase with mediocre crap

my 2cents
but Im still learning
have ran okay in the few games I have played

OzExorcist · Jan 22, 2013

micalupagoo said:
if nobody has a 5 card hand then lowest 4 cards win- very rare tho

Not really sure what you mean by this, because Razz hands are always made up of five cards.

If nobody can make a hand without pairs / trips / boats then you just go with whoever's pair / trips / boat is the lowest.

dtexhol567 · Jan 22, 2013

Thanks a lot for your insightful responses. CrayBish, I'm sorry but if I were playing for real I'd probably thrash your pants off

(Kidding)

CrayBish · Jan 22, 2013

OzExorcist said:
Not really sure what you mean by this, because Razz hands are always made up of five cards.

If nobody can make a hand without pairs / trips / boats then you just go with whoever's pair / trips / boat is the lowest.

hmmm but (let's take same example as in OP) "554KK / AA333" Obv, it's 5 cards but technically aren't we really counting the non-paired cards only? Therefore, 45K vs A3...since the double cards cancel each other out?

I'm not really a razz player....(so I may be totally wrong the way I view it...therefore don't bite my head off!)...

dtexhol567 · Jan 22, 2013

Final questions:

1) 55566 beats 44477?
2) 55666 beats 44477?
3) Above is really in effect 65 beats 74, since duplicates don't count?
4) 55666 ties with 55566? (65 =65)

Cheers, checking sanity now.

CrayBish · Jan 22, 2013

Look at it this way:

1) 65 > 74 (count from highest to lowest)

2) 65 > 74 cancel all duplicate cards and count only one of each

3) yes 65 beats 74

4) 65 = 65 yes it's a tie

dtexhol567 · Jan 22, 2013

Thanks CrayBish - very helpful indeed!

OzExorcist · Jan 22, 2013

CrayBish said:
hmmm but (let's take same example as in OP) "554KK / AA333" Obv, it's 5 cards but technically aren't we really counting the non-paired cards only? Therefore, 45K vs A3...since the double cards cancel each other out?

I'm not really a razz player....(so I may be totally wrong the way I view it...therefore don't bite my head off!)...

Nope, the paired cards definitely don't cancel each other out - you have to play a five-card hand. In the 554KK vs AA333 example it's two pair (kings and fives with a four) against a full house (threes full of aces). Two pair is a terrible Razz hand, but it's still lower than a full house, so it wins.

Note that for the two players to be playing those two awful hands, they'd have to have two even worse cards in their hands that they weren't using. So it would actually have been 5554KKK vs AAA3333 or something.

dtexhol567 said:
Final questions:

1) 55566 beats 44477?
2) 55666 beats 44477?
3) Above is really in effect 65 beats 74, since duplicates don't count?
4) 55666 ties with 55566? (65 =65)

Cheers, checking sanity now.

1 - 44477 wins, because fours-full is a lower hand than fives-full.
2 - 44477 wins again, because fours-full is even lower than sixes-full
3 - Definitely not, see above
4 - 55566 wins

All you need to do is think of it in regular high-hand-wins poker terms, and then reverse the rankings. The hand that would have won in stud hi or NLHE loses in Razz.

This is all largely meaningless, BTW, because it's very rare that you'll actually come across a real-life Razz situation where these kinds of hands are going up against each other. The hand ranking situation that trips most people up is actually this one:

56789 beats A234T, because you work from the highest card down. In this case the first hand is nine-high and the second hand is ten-high. So even though the second hand has four other cards that are lower than all of the cards in the first hand, it loses because the ten is higher than any card in the first hand.

micalupagoo · Jan 22, 2013

ty oz
explained well

google also shows hand rankings at many places
and like he said 'its very rare those kinds of hands go up gainst each other'
gl

pcgnome · Jan 22, 2013

Yes....chasing can get you into some serious trouble. You should fold every time until your 1st 3 cards are less than 8 without any pairs.

OzExorcist · Jan 23, 2013

pcgnome said:
Yes....chasing can get you into some serious trouble. You should fold every time until your 1st 3 cards are less than 8 without any pairs.

FWIW this is also somewhat dangerous advice because, as we should all know with all forms of poker, the right action depends on the situation.

There are a lot of situations in razz where you can profitably play staring hands that are worse than a three-card eight. In evaluating whether you're in one of those spots you should be thinking about your position, your up cards, your opponent's up cards and other dead cards you've seen, just for starters.

And while it's true that chasing can get you into trouble, by definition you're ALWAYS chasing in razz, at least until fifth street. It's the only form of poker where you'll never be dealt a pat hand so even A23, the best starting hand, can go bad if you brick the next two streets.

dtexhol567 · Jan 23, 2013

Google shows rankings, but it doesn't answer specific questions like this.

Thanks for your clarification, OzExorcist. So essentially it's normal poker but in reverse. (Minus consideration of flushes, straights.)

Yes, I get you about the real life situation. Actually, that point is really straight-forward for me (the one that trips people up).

CrayBish · Jan 23, 2013

OzExorcist said:
Nope, the paired cards definitely don't cancel each other out - you have to play a five-card hand. In the 554KK vs AA333 example it's two pair (kings and fives with a four) against a full house (threes full of aces). Two pair is a terrible Razz hand, but it's still lower than a full house, so it wins.

Note that for the two players to be playing those two awful hands, they'd have to have two even worse cards in their hands that they weren't using. So it would actually have been 5554KKK vs AAA3333 or something.

1 - 44477 wins, because fours-full is a lower hand than fives-full.
2 - 44477 wins again, because fours-full is even lower than sixes-full
3 - Definitely not, see above
4 - 55566 wins

All you need to do is think of it in regular high-hand-wins poker terms, and then reverse the rankings. The hand that would have won in stud hi or NLHE loses in Razz.

This is all largely meaningless, BTW, because it's very rare that you'll actually come across a real-life Razz situation where these kinds of hands are going up against each other. The hand ranking situation that trips most people up is actually this one:

56789 beats A234T, because you work from the highest card down. In this case the first hand is nine-high and the second hand is ten-high. So even though the second hand has four other cards that are lower than all of the cards in the first hand, it loses because the ten is higher than any card in the first hand.

Thanks for correcting me! Glad OP didn't take me up on HU4ROLLz offer lol .....altho, I wouldn't even have ever been in a hand like that in first place. (unless it was my blind or wtv you call it, and it was checked down all the way ...obv)

I honestly always thought duplicate cards often cancel each other out...but I now see that your way is the correct way of viewing it!

Thanks...good stuff, now that I know it all

...hu4rolls? j/k obv ..... :vroam:

youregoodmate · Jan 23, 2013

dtexhol567 said:
4) 55666 ties with 55566? (65 =65).

Errrrmmm... I would want the deck checked out. We seem to have too many cards.

CrayBish · Jan 23, 2013

youregoodmate said:
Errrrmmm... I would want the deck checked out. We seem to have too many cards.

Wow....youreREALLYgoodmate! (All pun intended) :congrats:

the lab man · Jan 23, 2013

dtexhol567 said:
Final questions:

1) 55566 beats 44477?
2) 55666 beats 44477?
3) Above is really in effect 65 beats 74, since duplicates don't count?
4) 55666 ties with 55566? (65 =65)

Cheers, checking sanity now.

What are your other 2 cards even if its a K and Q that becomes part of your hand
So A 55566KQ becomes KQ655
and yes Question 4 means the dealer is cheating

Chemist · Jan 23, 2013

Forget about pairs.
If your worst hand is King High you can fold it.

Remember it is 5 cards from 7.
So just count up your 5 lowest cards. (No duplicates).

But then count back down as well !
96543 is better than 98321

54321 is the best.
64321 is the second best
65321 3rd
65421 4th
etc...

aircasar9876 · Jan 25, 2013

Ive always wondered something about these low games. im assuming all are the same. this question may also be for stud and omaha hi lo games. but if you have a 5 card low of lets say a2467 and you are up against a3457 the first one is better right? ive never known for sure, i guess i dont play enough hi lo and come across it much. i think my example is what im trying to ask correctly. where both hands have 1 card that is better than the other persons then it just becomes the one that has the one closest to the ace right?

Chemist · Jan 27, 2013

Sorry, Completely Wrong !

75...
is better than 76....

Look at the above again,
taking your 5 lowest cards,
they count back down from highest downwards,
with highest losing.

rhombus · Jan 27, 2013

Basic Razz Stuff
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/games/razz/,

Razz hand rankings

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