Raising before you enter a hand

smpolak

smpolak

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I am a bit curious why I see so many limpers playing poker these days? I only limp on rare circumstances. If I can't raise to enter the pot I don't like to play my hand. When I do raise the limpers often end up like calling station and call with their limping hands. That is when on fourth street or the river I get sucked out on. The only solution some times is to just pray. Does anyone else feel the same?
 
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KarlAbbott01

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I like to limp if i'm EP at given times with an open hand such as T9s and etc. I'd like to see the flop however I don't want to risk any cash for the flop if you get what I mean. I'd like too hear how more experienced players handle this
 
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theblizzardofoz

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Do i feel the same??? I could have wrote this. I am starting to think luck has way more to do with poker than common sense. I am the donkey whisperer they always find me!
 
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RickMiller

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There are a couple reasons players will do it. Like Karl said the suited connectors in EP are a hand with a lot of potential but not worth to get squeezed out with a ton of chips with a great pocket pair in later positions, also there are players trying to draw others in the hand when they have pocket pairs in EPISODE
 
smpolak

smpolak

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What do you mean by EPISODE? I have not heard of this term before.
 
smpolak

smpolak

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Oh.. shows my knowledge. I just got called by K6 off after my pot raise in EP and lost a big pot. Just saying... I can't seem to get past the slot machine players.
 
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Neek4555

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Limping is fine from early position


But from late position Limping is bad.
You are better off raising.
The respect you get on flop
(Almost always will be checked to you) is great.
 
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myuk1

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if u know the limpers are going to call, make them really pay for it with your good starting hands. Try raising larger. If u keep getting sucked out on then u should not have allowed them to see that many cards. more often than not, they will pay for the bad call and not hit the board
 
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karl coakley

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if u know the limpers are going to call, make them really pay for it with your good starting hands. Try raising larger. If u keep getting sucked out on then u should not have allowed them to see that many cards. more often than not, they will pay for the bad call and not hit the board

That is pretty much the answer. When you start getting a lot of limps I start 10x the pot, many times I'll just jam.

It's not luck, just math. People seem okay with a 50/50 hand (AK vs. 88) but for some reason think they just got unlucky when they have their AK lose to 89. Most poker hands are 60/40, which means your AK is going to beat my 89os only 1 extra hand (out of 10).

You need to play big pot poker when faced with passive players or they will suck out a lot (40%). Get your chips in when you have the edge. Make them pay (and go to the rail) for playing their trash.

Of course, you are going to lose some, but when your hands stand up, you are going to be positioned to go deep in a tournament or stack some chips in cash games.

Don't play their game, play your own.
 
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titiduru

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This raising or folding strategy is not great at all, in my opinion. It might work at medium or high stakes, but in small/microstakes or freerolls is just going to make you lose money. The whole reasoning behind your strategy is the theoretical fold equity, without it you end up raising with marginal hands and throwing away playable hands for no reason.
 
vinnie

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This raising or folding strategy is not great at all, in my opinion. It might work at medium or high stakes, but in small/microstakes or freerolls is just going to make you lose money. The whole reasoning behind your strategy is the theoretical fold equity, without it you end up raising with marginal hands and throwing away playable hands for no reason.

Do you use tracking software? Do you have your winrate when you open-limp (not limp behind) from positions 4 or more away from the button? That's UTG in 6-max and UTG, UTG+1, MP, MP+1 in 9-max.

If you have that number, how does it compare to the winrate from the same positions when you open with a raise?

Also, sample sizes for each would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Be sure to filter out SB limps, as the default way of doing this will give you small blind open limps. I tend to limp (more than I should) in omaha. It hasn't destroyed my winrate, but it certainly isn't benefiting me.
 
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wasal2002

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I am a bit curious why I see so many limpers playing poker these days? I only limp on rare circumstances. If I can't raise to enter the pot I don't like to play my hand. When I do raise the limpers often end up like calling station and call with their limping hands. That is when on fourth street or the river I get sucked out on. The only solution some times is to just pray. Does anyone else feel the same?



Totally! I prefer to raise my hand as well. Then yes the person that didn't raise calls your raise with a donkey hand. Turn and river is where you get donkied on. Lol
 
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jefrock21

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If I am in early position in freerolls, I will limp because people raise on any 2 cards....but I have to be prepared to get beat by trash cards if no one raises.
 
eberetta1

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I know i am more likely to limp in any two cards when i am playing with house money. Sometimes online when you are in the right seat and ahead in chips, the software wont let you lose. Hence limp.
 
ACERYAN

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If you only play hands you can raise with then it would be a lot easier to read you and know you're playing a range of strong hands. Someone who constantly limps could be playing anything. I think in the long run though raising and playing good cards will be more profitable. People who play bad cards and suck out will be less profitable. I'd say take your bumps here and there but keep playing your game.
 
vinnie

vinnie

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If you only play hands you can raise with then it would be a lot easier to read you and know you're playing a range of strong hands. Someone who constantly limps could be playing anything. I think in the long run though raising and playing good cards will be more profitable. People who play bad cards and suck out will be less profitable. I'd say take your bumps here and there but keep playing your game.

You do realize that poker is a game that strongly punishes second best hands, right? And, in logical response to that fact, you should only be playing a strong range of hands! So, in the last logical step, if you are the first person in the pot, the only playable hands should be ones strong enough for a raise. If your hand is not strong enough for a raise, it isn't strong enough to play. Actually, you would need a stronger range for open-limps than for open-raises, because you are giving up a significant part of any hand's equity (fold equity) pre-flop.

What defines a strong range depends on your position, number of opponents, their ranges and your expected position after the flop and the expected number of opponents after the flop. So, A9o might be a fold UTG because it is likely too weak for those conditions, but it would be a raise on the button, because it is part of a strong range there.

Open limping is a losing play. It is nearly impossible for it to be part of a well structured winning no-limit hold'em strategy.

Edit: This does make it easier to read you than someone playing a 100% range, but it doesn't make your hand obvious. An 18% range is still a very large number of combinations and will hit a large number of flops. And, often, even knowing that someone is playing a strong range doesn't provide you any advantage because their range is too strong for you profitably exploit that knowledge.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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I agree that you should be raising when entering a pot. I do however find myself limping a lot more from late position due to the number of limpers and the pot value. Most likely more than I should. Something to go back and evaluate.
 
smpolak

smpolak

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That is a very helpful post. Very enlightening.
 
sryulaw

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Comes limp, I only do it in the SB position, in the rest I bet only for value and bluff, you need to study this concept so it's not easy to talk here. Study about these concepts so you will play your game better.
 
MikeCarasone

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Limping often implies that the player isn't looking to invest a great deal to see a flop. This is not always the case and they are waiting for someone else to push the action so they can pounce. In early position it's become common, but limping late is weak. If you are gonna play a hand in position, you should be raising. I like to open with 2.5 the BB.
 
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marakhovskii

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I often meet with this and came to the conclusion that in the multipole this is the most profitable strategy
 
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ph_il

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I am a bit curious why I see so many limpers playing poker these days? I only limp on rare circumstances. If I can't raise to enter the pot I don't like to play my hand. When I do raise the limpers often end up like calling station and call with their limping hands. That is when on fourth street or the river I get sucked out on. The only solution some times is to just pray. Does anyone else feel the same?
Bad players like to play a lot of hands and see flops.

Bad players don't like to fold preflop too often.

Use this to your advantage by raising your big hands. Then, it's all about pot control post flop.
 
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ph_il

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Oh.. shows my knowledge. I just got called by K6 off after my pot raise in EP and lost a big pot. Just saying... I can't seem to get past the slot machine players.
What hands are you opening up in EP?

How did the rest of the hand play out?
 
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