Raising after flop with a draw??

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hm8187

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hi, im realitivly new to the game of texas holdem, i play NLH online and have only recently decided to start reading books on the topics. one thing i can not understand and was only covered briefly in the book i am reading (maybe its covered later in the book) is raising on the flop with a draw, whether it be straight or flush. In the pot equity section the author states "you should frequently raise on the flop with a quality open ended draw as you are expected to win significantly more than your share by the river"

i understand how pot odds, expectation and pot equity is calculated but i would like someone to help me understand why raising here would help you win significantly more than your share. thanks
 
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lukeellul92

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Open ended means you're drawing from both ends of your straight. top straight or bottom straight, giving you effectively 8 outs to hit your straight. On the flop, with 8 outs to hit your straight the rule of 2 and 4 would give you %32 essentially to get your hand.
Flushing is even better because you'll have more outs.
Essentially, you haven't made your hand yet, but you've got a good chance to, and if you do make a straight/flush, the betting you've made on the flop simply increases pot size and your winnings.

If I'm wrong then someone please correct me, but I'm pretty sure this is the answer he's looking for.
 
Gothams Son

Gothams Son

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I've been away from the game for about two years now so I don't remember all the lingo or all the terminology but in this instance isn't there something about being able to check the turn if you have position as well?
 
atlantafalcons0

atlantafalcons0

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It has nothing to do with pot odds, fold equity is the point.

This^

Raising with a draw gives you another way to win the pot if your draw doesn't come through. Either you hit your hand and get paid OR your opponent folds and you get paid.
 
pick4player

pick4player

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Raising on flop you win more... for example.... due to if you make your flush or a card that makes your straight hits on turn your opponent might shut down or fold on 4th and 5th street . he might call your raise on flop with top pair . so thats why you can raise open ened or nut flush draw ... in my opinion ... you think im right or not thanks
 
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hffjd2000

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The author noted this strategy on the pot equity section, because of the reason to manipulate your pot equity going to the turn and/or river.
 
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GWU73

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Raising the flop with a draw is really a better play in Limit - to get a free card on the turn. Raising a draw in no limit, especially vs. players who hate to fold (read micro stakes), is dangerous. I do not recommend using that play until you develop solid post flop skills. You will likely have to fire at least one more big bet to get hands like top pair to fold, and you may get called down.
 
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ih8sens

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Just a thought (new poker player myself...) but it has the added benefit of disguising your hand. A-T-7 flop, where you're raising an A, but holding 8-9, may have them thinking TT. On loose (low stakes/freerolls) tables, this stuff never works, so there isn't much point being subtle. Get in cheap, go crazy if you hit, odds are one of the 45 people still in the pot by the turn will call you.

-Matt
 
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Jeremy Schatz

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The Check Raise on the flop (YOU HAVE TO BE OOP)
This is good for a lot of reasons
1. FOLD EQUITY. Giving your opponent a chance to fold when they are in position without donking is nice. Also, let's suppose they have a made hand and your chances to hit your draw are 38%. It is very reasonable for them to fold more than 12% of the time, winning you the pot over 50% of the time. It's reasonable for them to fold because of the next point.
2. Balancing Your Range. Let's suppose their made hand is dominated by your range the majority of the time, as in you would check raise your sets and maybe 2-pairs as well. Because of that, they are in the dark and taking a big risk by calling.
3. Implied Odds. Suppose they call, a turn card comes, and with your check-raising hand 1/4 the deck will complete your draw. You have a stacked pot there that is only going to get bigger if YOU WANT. You control the size of the pot, and with your big hands you can feel very safe betting with the nuts and winning HUGE when your opponent calls with a set or 2-pair.

Here's an example
You raise JcTc in the cutoff to 3BB. The button calls, and blinds fold.
Pot: 7.5BB
Flop: QcAh9c

Your outs: 9 to a flush, 8 to a straight, 2 counted twice. 15 outs, 54% chance to hit (likely) the nuts. This is ignoring hitting a J or a T would give you a made hand.

You check, your opponent bets 3.5BB, and you raise to 11B. There is a 20% chance he will fold, but he calls.

Pot: 22BB
Turn: Js

Your outs: 9 to a flush, 8 to a straight, 2 counted twice. 2 outs to a jack. 17 outs, 37%. This is ignoring that you may have a made hand. Your opponent bets 9BB. You call, because when you make your hand your opponent will likely still bet on the river, so on top of the nice pot odds you have the implied odds.

Pot: 40BB
River: Kc

Woah, that's both your outs, a straight flush. That's another beauty of these things. Your opponent bets, you raise, he thinks and then either folds and you won a huge pot, or bets and you win more.
 
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jimmy62

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Poker is math,attitude,and willingness to gamble on a draw sometimes.Knowing your outs for any given hand right away is one of the most important aspects of game in my opinion.Sometimes this knowledge gives you the confidence to win.The lack of it will surely beat you in long run.
 
fubarcdn

fubarcdn

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Raising in this case is a risky move especially in early position. In most cases I would elect to just call and hope nobody else makes a big raise and call a small raise.
I am only marginally successful so my advice is worth what you paid for it. :)
 
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