raising a bunch of limpers

I've often heard that if there are a bunch of limpers you should open for whatever you would raise without limpers say 2.5 -3 BB plus one BB for each limper. I don't actually see this happening a lot. I'm just wondering how many people do this? Also at the higher levels of a tourney this can become a lot of chips so I'm wondering if adjustments should be made for this.

Amanda A said:

I've often heard that if there are a bunch of limpers you should open for whatever you would raise without limpers say 2.5 -3 BB plus one BB for each limper. I don't actually see this happening a lot. I'm just wondering how many people do this? Also at the higher levels of a tourney this can become a lot of chips so I'm wondering if adjustments should be made for this.

Click to expand...

I differ slighty from this in that i raise with the previous positions range to iso when im ip give or take a few combo's. So let's say im in the Co i would iso with Mp's range and if im on the Btn i would iso with my Co range. And oop i do a similar thing i dont think you want to iso with your whole range vs limpers from each poisiton because your not really generating any fold equity vs limpers. And ye the sizing is your default raise size for the position +1bb for each limper.

I do see a lot of shoves in this situation. 2.5 - 3 BB +1 per addt'l limper may be too low (depending of course on the stakes/risk/stacks) and can end up just creating a large pot with a lot of limp/callers.

Any raise is susceptible to an over the top re-raise (i.e., shove) so often the best play is to simply do that yourself up front rather than letting the pot gradually build up to the point where everybody feels obligated to be all-in.

Hi
I would raise to 2.5 to 3 BB anytime any position with good cards.
The raise is basically to eliminate the limpers.

If I have good hole cards I would rather limp in too.

Amanda A said:

I've often heard that if there are a bunch of limpers you should open for whatever you would raise without limpers say 2.5 -3 BB plus one BB for each limper.

Click to expand...

I believe it's plus one if you're out of position and an additional BB if you think there's someone left to play after you that you think will call.

I think this is advocated in the Grinders Manual (Clarke) & Master Micro Stakes (Hardin), and likely others.

I've always viewed it as a cash game strategy since you can rebuy if you find yourself low stacked. In a tournament, I don't know if I'd want to extend myself so much in one hand. I believe both books assumes you have 100BB, and that may not be the case in a tourney.

I'd be curious what those authors (or anyone else advocating this sizing) say about ISO raises in tournaments v. cash .

Interesting comments, thanks!

It's more common practice in cash games where you can add-on anytime. In tourneys the chips are limited, so most players prefer to call instead of raise. This lets them see more flops with the smallest investment.

I like to 3BB +1BB per limper in early tourney when everyone is deep stacked. In late tourney a 2BB raise will usually get the point accross, but if not check-fold if you didnt hit top pair or better. In cash games ISO is usually effective in getting a few people to fold, and is more effective the higher the stakes. In regards to the shove, you'll have to evaluate the players who are in and are likely to call because you might end up in a race with really bad odds. If you think you could be beat pretty bad, just limp too. theres plenty of money in the pot and a mid to high bet on the flop, if you have something worth while, will get weak cards to fold, and you'll get an idea of the kinds of cards you could be up against. I hope this helped!

I know of this but when I get myself in such a position I usually go all instead of raising. It actually worked a couple of times

In micros I've seen thinking players follow suit by limping along with aces or kings in hopes of inducing action from players behind. In low stakes, it gets harder to gage whether some players are doing this to see cheap flops or doing this to induce action/bluffs.

It was very informative to hear everyone's comments on this. I limp in sometimes sure, but I may even decide to limp in more now. Very good points made, but as far as a formula for betting out limpers, it always comes down to risk and reward.

B1731898 said:

I limp in sometimes sure, but I may even decide to limp in more now.

Click to expand...

All that I've read suggests that you never limp first, but sometimes it makes sense to limp after.

I've seen it myself when in the big blinds. One or more players limp. I get to see the flop for free, and sometimes connect with a monster. The most extreme I can remember is a truly trash hand (like 5 / 3) ending up with a full house on the flop (something like 5 / 5 / 3). I would've folded that hand to any raise.

Do yourself a favor, raise if you're in first. At least make the big blind pay something to see the flop

2.5-3 BB plus one BB for each limper.

Click to expand...

I also read.
My goal was to get Limper out of the car. Often this does not happen.
I suppose it's often because some players don't know this procedure.
And as I said before, if the pot gets a little bigger then the odds will be better to call.

I think it's best to try and see how the players behave. And then adjust your game accordingly.

This is something that you should be doing and if you do not see it happening than that is probably a table you want to play at. In tournaments, depending on how many blinds you have left, you should probably just shove.

3.5+1 per limper is the recommended amount.

I don't do standard though I go even bigger around 10X - 15X