Questions regarding seven card games

I've been trying my hand at Razz and 7 card stud lately for kicks. During a tournament yesterday I started thinking (bad idea): nine players on a table each get 7 cards 9 x7 = 63 card delt per round. That is more than a single deck of cards. If there were two decks then each denomination would have 8 cards; like 8 Aces, etc. But the poker rules only allow 4 aces. How do the online sites software do this ? My guess is they parse the cards to be delt and discard the excess for every card past 52 delt. That means I could not get fourth A if had three and someone already has one? I haven't seen more than four of a kind, yet, maybe it happens and I just don't know it so far because I haven't played enought. But,the rules do not allow it. Maybe someone out there can enlighten me??????? --- Seems like a conundrum.:deal:

If everyone stays in, at some point, like 5th street perhaps, all the cards are dealt to the board and are community cards.

Doesn't happen often, but I've seen it. Not sure which street it will start at. Sort of depends. With proper timing and folding, it would be conceivable that all 52 cards could be in play. But I think it might not happen because a part of poker is wondering/figuring out what cards might still be in the muck or undealt. So 5th street would be a good guess.

I've always wondered too. tx dj

It's for this reason that tables playing stud games only have eight seats, not nine (or at least, they should only have eight seats - I've not heard of any site that plays nine-handed stud).

8 players x 7 cards still equals 56 cards though, so the deck can theoretically run out of every player sees seventh street.

I've never seen it happen myself, but the rule is that if there aren't enough cards left in the deck to give everyone a down card on seventh, then one card is dealt face up in the middle of the table and all the players share that card. Someone posted a screenshot of it happening on here once.

Keep in mind that if just one player folds on third street though, there'll be enough cards for the rest of the players to finish out the hand.

dj11 said:

If everyone stays in, at some point, like 5th street perhaps, all the cards are dealt to the board and are community cards.

Doesn't happen often, but I've seen it. Not sure which street it will start at. Sort of depends. With proper timing and folding, it would be conceivable that all 52 cards could be in play. But I think it might not happen because a part of poker is wondering/figuring out what cards might still be in the muck or undealt. So 5th street would be a good guess.

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There are no community cards in Razz or 7 card stud. The Razz do have 8 seats and now my memory fails me if 7 card is 8 or 9. Regardless there is always more then 52 cards delt. So in my opinion the software is open to question on how it determines what your next card is after 52 have been delt??? Don't know the answere.

Questions regarding seven card games online.

The more I've thought about it the less I like about it. I think I'll stick with Texas Holdem and Omaha. Too much room for fandangling by the software.

For instance in Razz: every time my turn came to bring in the first chips not only did I get a high card showing, usually had two more down - that sucks alot. It happens to me 9 out of 10 times.:hmmmm:

perry said:

There are no community cards in Razz or 7 card stud. The Razz do have 8 seats and now my memory fails me if 7 card is 8 or 9. Regardless there is always more then 52 cards delt. So in my opinion the software is open to question on how it determines what your next card is after 52 have been delt??? Don't know the answere.

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You are right. NORMALLY THERE ARE NO COMMUNITY CARDS in either 7 stud game. However, what I described will happen at some point to you if you stay with those games.

In home games, a sloppy game might use any discarded cards (mucked) and reshuffle them back into the deck. But not live, nor online.

Can you imagine the uproar of rigged if a 53rd card showed in any online game? Ain't gonna happen. Trust me, my answer is pretty damn close to correct.

perry said:

The more I've thought about it the less I like about it. I think I'll stick with Texas Holdem and Omaha. Too much room for fandangling by the software.

For instance in Razz: every time my turn came to bring in the first chips not only did I get a high card showing, usually had two more down - that sucks alot. It happens to me 9 out of 10 times.:hmmmm:

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Yeah, sure seems to happen a lot that the bring in feels more like an insult!

LOL at the thought of 8 players taking their razz hands to 7th.

perry said:

There are no community cards in Razz or 7 card stud. The Razz do have 8 seats and now my memory fails me if 7 card is 8 or 9. Regardless there is always more then 52 cards delt. So in my opinion the software is open to question on how it determines what your next card is after 52 have been delt??? Don't know the answere.

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This is absolutely not the case - stud is played with a regular 52 card deck, same as any other game, and there should never be more than 52 cards dealt.

If, somehow, all eight players at a full table make it to seventh street, then they'll all have six cards in their hand already.

8 x 6 = 48, which means there's four cards left in the deck.

Now, like I said above: in this event that this (or any other situation in which there aren't enough cards left in the deck to give everyone still in the hand an individual seventh street card) happens, one card is put face up in the middle and shared by all players.

Note that this can only happen on seventh street, because it's impossible for the deck to run out of cards any time before that. While you're right about stud games not having community cards, an exception has to be made in this rare case.

Skoldpadda has it right though: LOL at eight players making it to seventh street in razz - or any other stud game, come to think of it.

dj11 said:

In home games, a sloppy game might use any discarded cards (mucked) and reshuffle them back into the deck. But not live, nor online.

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Amusing aside: you're correct in this for stud games - reshuffling shouldn't happen, and in the event that all eight players have taken seventh street, there won't be any more than four cards to reshuffle anyway.

In draw games, however, discarded cards can usually be reshuffled and re-dealt. It comes up most often in games like deuce-seven triple draw, where up to 35 cards have been dealt before anyone draws for the first time (let alone the third time). I remember it happening a couple of times following last year's wsop coverage.

Stud has always been one of my favorite games not usually everyone plays the hand on your table but it has happened and then the cards are on the table like holdem to share. Its hard to get enough in a stud tourney to play most times some come by mistake and then ask how do you play this lol.

Here is what it looks like:

This is an interesting screen shot but is puzzeling because the dealer chat says angelsgore wins hi pot with with 2 pair kings and sevens which are not visable in angelsgore hand. Never the less it does show the community card on a pokerstars Hi/Lo Stud game. I'll have to go to PS play money and mess around abit to see it happen. Thanks for going to the trouble to set this up for us to view.

perry said:

This is an interesting screen shot but is puzzeling because the dealer chat says angelsgore wins hi pot with with 2 pair kings and sevens which are not visable in angelsgore hand. Never the less it does show the community card on a PokerStars Hi/Lo Stud game. I'll have to go to PokerStars play money and mess around abit to see it happen. Thanks for going to the trouble to set this up for us to view.

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Perry, even with the spot-on, very good explanations from Oz and DJ earlier in this post, you are obviously still very confused and I would highly advise you not to waste any real money on a game for which you seem to have so little understanding at this time. Try some play-money Stud, Razz, HORSE, etc., and once you've seen a few thousand hands and feel comfortable, then maybe try some micro-stakes real money games.

By the way, the dealer messages in that screen shot are obviously referring to the previous hand, as the current hand is still live and all players have not acted yet (which is also why there are still down cards in players' hands).

perry said:

This is an interesting screen shot but is puzzeling because the dealer chat says angelsgore wins hi pot with with 2 pair kings and sevens which are not visable in angelsgore hand. Never the less it does show the community card on a PokerStars Hi/Lo Stud game. I'll have to go to PokerStars play money and mess around abit to see it happen. Thanks for going to the trouble to set this up for us to view.

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As Billy has pointed out, the kings and sevens announcement in the chat box was from the previous hand.

Anywho - is there a particular reason you want to see this for yourself? In the very, very rare event that a full table takes seventh street you can trust us, a community card will be dealt just like in the screenshot.

And even in the loosest play money games you'll still have to play for days and days to see the situation come up. In real money it's almost unheard of. I deal live (the reason I bother to learn the obscure rules like this) and I've played thousands of hands of stud online, and I'm yet to see it happen.

:deal: I've been playing Razz online for about a month now and have come in the money a few times. The only reason I question the handling of cards in excess of a 52 card deck is purely an interest in how the software handles cards that exceed the poker rules. I don't think I'm a neophite, or confused, but asking questions you old timers playing online poker sites can answer. What's wrong with that? If I insulted anyone inadvertedly - you have my apology.

I don't think anyone's taken any particular offence - we're just saying you'll waste days and days of your time (not to mention money, even if it's only play money) trying to get in a situation where you see a stud community card for yourself.

Particularly in razz, where by definition if the deck is running out of cards the at least two or three players will have truly awful and unplayable hands.

Why ask the question if you aren't going to accept the answer?

Wow i must say that was a very good question though.

perry said:

This is an interesting screen shot but is puzzeling because the dealer chat says angelsgore wins hi pot with with 2 pair kings and sevens which are not visable in angelsgore hand. Never the less it does show the community card on a PokerStars Hi/Lo Stud game. I'll have to go to PokerStars play money and mess around abit to see it happen. Thanks for going to the trouble to set this up for us to view.

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Note the chat game #, and then the game# and previous game # in the upper left of the screen shot.

Thanks to all for your input -- No cards can be delt above 52 because to do so violates the rules of poker (no five aces, etc). As somebody said the cards going into the muck get recycled and/or if the software senses there is not enough cards, then community cards must be delt. Haven't seen that yet -- it was fun talking about it. Cardschat encouraged me to post something and I though this was an area that may be interesting.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind getting 5 aces!!!

perry said:

As somebody said the cards going into the muck get recycled and/or if the software senses there is not enough cards, then community cards must be delt.

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Just to be pedantic, there is absolutely no and/or on this point - in a stud game on seventh street, if there aren't enough cards left in the deck to give everyone an individual seventh street card, then one community card will be dealt.

There is no reshuffling and re-dealing of mucked cards in stud. In a game like triple-draw it may be allowed, but definitely not in stud.