Question about a hand.

Good morning. I'll get right to the point. I had a hand two days ago that I'd like to ask for advice about. This is the first time I've posted a hand for review, so if theres a more efficient way of doing it don't hesitate to let me know.

Here's what's up. I got my ass kicked in this hand, and I'd like to know if there was any indication that I was out gunned.
This is the game. $5NL 6 table max on Bovada. Only 4 Players at the table including myself. I've got $4.41 and the player I will go heads up with has $6.07. He's sitting to my immediate right. He also happens to be the big blind as we're shorthanded.

I'm dealt KdQh and I'm in the CO seat. Being shorthanded I start the hand and I raise to $.10. The Button fold. SB folds. BB raises to $.15. I call.
The flop is Qd 8h 10d. BB bets $.15. I call.
These were my thoughts: I flopped top pair. I have a K high three flush and there are two cards left. There's straight potential if the A J comes down or a J 9, but that's just as true for him as it is for me. Supposing he's holding K J or some other combination that works well with this flop. I briefly considered that he could have a pocket pair like KK or AA or even the QQ, but being that I had one Q and there was one on the board, I figured the likelihood of him holding QQ was a longshot and if he was holding a strong hand like AA, AK or the QQ, he sure wasn't betting like it. I mean really... a $.15 raise? If I did my math right, and I could always be wrong, I was getting 3:1 pot odds (calling $.15 for the chance to win $.47 works out to about 3:1 odds I think.) And I had plenty of outs. That seemed like a great flop for me and it could only improve with all that potential.
So I called. I got a Kc on the Turn. BB bets $.35.
I considered that he had a straight. And I thought very hard about folding here. He plays pretty aggressively and has been known to go all the way to the showdown with garbage so I considered that he could have A J or that he was playing very loosely by starting with a J 9 or a low pocket pair. He bluffs ALOT and he hadn't been betting strongly enough to make me think he had a strong hand, but I could be wrong and I didn't want to over bet my hand in case he had something. So I simply called.
The River brings a 5d. BB checks.
The board at this point is:
Qd 8h 10d Kc 5d
Now, it's here that I do something really stupid. I was fairly sure he had bullshit and instead of just checking and showing this hand down, I decided to make a large bet and give him crap pot odds to force him to tell me whether he had a good hand or was completely full of shit. A very stupid decision as I could have gotten that information MUCH more cheaply by simply checking and seeing his cards.
I made a $2.24 raise to "put the sword to him" and he called.
At the showdown he revealed the QQ that I had considered to be such a long shot.

I was a curious combination of "mad as hell" and "what can I learn from this?" I did NOT go on tilt and I would end the hour of play (I only play one hour at a time before I take mandatory breaks to eat or review hands or read some poker literature) winning $8.50 even after recouping my losses.

So... that's the way this went down. What are your thoughts boys and girls? What would you have done?

Whoops.

Sorry for the double post.

Hand is sort of a cooler.

However, as played, that big bet on the river only folds out hands you beat, and only better hands like straights, flushes, and sets will call.

We bet for value, or as a bluff.

Checking down might have been OK. But this might be results oriented. A smaller value bet would have been a little better IMO.

So was making so large a bet on the river my only mistake? I'm trying to figure out if my opponent gave any indication that I had already lost.
Maybe there was a better way to handle my preflop game? I seriously doubt that I could bet any amount that would make pocket queens fold pre flop. He had a larger stack. I wasn't going to get away with trying to throw my weight around with a $4 stack in 5NL. And he flopped a set. The best thing I could have done was to fold after the flop, but it looked like such a good flop for me.

Zelenn said:

So was making so large a bet on the river my only mistake? I'm trying to figure out if my opponent gave any indication that I had already lost.
Maybe there was a better way to handle my preflop game? I seriously doubt that I could bet any amount that would make pocket queens fold pre flop. He had a larger stack. I wasn't going to get away with trying to throw my weight around with a $4 stack in 5NL. And he flopped a set. The best thing I could have done was to fold after the flop, but it looked like such a good flop for me.

Click to expand...

I really would like to see some more replies on this one.

I think villain played the hand poorly also.


You seem to be thinking of things based on the results. Results are irrelevant. Did you play the hand correctly based on the info you had? That is the real question.



I have just read over the hand again. These are my thoughts...


BB could really have a pretty wide range such as 8-8+, A-10+, and who knows what else.

You played the hand pretty passively until the river.



My thoughts on the line you took:

I don't like min-raising preflop. 3x~5x is what I would like to see.

On the flop, we should be raising. If we get re-raised (which we probably would have), re-evaluate. This would have been an indicator of villain's hand strength.

We raise for value, not necessarily for info. Seeing you did hit this flop pretty hard, I would raise for value. If villain then re-raises, we ask ourselves what does he do this with? What can we beat?

He likely doesn't re-pop us with less than K-Q. That is why playing so passively gets us very little info on villains holdings. We are almost playing with blinders on.

If villain is on a draw or something, we have just put him in a tough -ev spot if he chooses to continue.


I don't like the big bet on the river. Like I said, we fold out hands we beat, and hands that have us beat will show up here a lot.



That is my official opinion. However, I would like to hear some opinions from the more experienced members of the forum.

There are slow rollers out there. Sometimes u can pick em and other times u can't. However, he could suppose the same from u, too. I think u made a mistake with the big raise. There were too many outs for either of u to bet big.

Beanfacekilla said:

I really would like to see some more replies on this one.

I think villain played the hand poorly also.


You seem to be thinking of things based on the results. Results are irrelevant. Did you play the hand correctly based on the info you had? That is the real question.



I have just read over the hand again. These are my thoughts...


BB could really have a pretty wide range such as 8-8+, A-10+, and who knows what else.

You played the hand pretty passively until the river.



My thoughts on the line you took:

I don't like min-raising preflop. 3x~5x is what I would like to see.

On the flop, we should be raising. If we get re-raised (which we probably would have), re-evaluate. This would have been an indicator of villain's hand strength.

We raise for value, not necessarily for info. Seeing you did hit this flop pretty hard, I would raise for value. If villain then re-raises, we ask ourselves what does he do this with? What can we beat?

He likely doesn't re-pop us with less than K-Q. That is why playing so passively gets us very little info on villains holdings. We are almost playing with blinders on.

If villain is on a draw or something, we have just put him in a tough -ev spot if he chooses to continue.


I don't like the big bet on the river. Like I said, we fold out hands we beat, and hands that have us beat will show up here a lot.



That is my official opinion. However, I would like to hear some opinions from the more experienced members of the forum.

Click to expand...

This is great information! Thanks for replying. I took notes actually.
If I am understanding you correctly, I should be playing more aggressively. Instead of merely doubling their current bet, I should be at least 3 betting when I have a decent hand (betting for value.) If I am then reraised, then I can take this as an indication that the villain has something decent that probably pairs well with the board and my next question should be "What hand could he have that goes well with this board? And what hands am I able to beat?"

I assume that the correct play at this point is to reraise his reraise IF I think I can beat the best hand he could have? If he then reraises me again I can take this as an indication that he probably has the highest hands within the range I have him put on? If so, then it follows that if the Turn or the River brings a card that matches well with the highest range I have him put on, but doesn't help me any, then I should strongly consider folding if he continues to reraise me? Unless of course I have the nuts and simply can't be beat, which is possible but unlikely.

Zelenn said:

This is great information! Thanks for replying. I took notes actually.
If I am understanding you correctly, I should be playing more aggressively. Instead of merely doubling their current bet, I should be at least 3 betting when I have a decent hand (betting for value.) If I am then reraised, then I can take this as an indication that the villain has something decent that probably pairs well with the board and my next question should be "What hand could he have that goes well with this board? And what hands am I able to beat?"

I assume that the correct play at this point is to reraise his reraise IF I think I can beat the best hand he could have? If he then reraises me again I can take this as an indication that he probably has the highest hands within the range I have him put on? If so, then it follows that if the Turn or the River brings a card that matches well with the highest range I have him put on, but doesn't help me any, then I should strongly consider folding if he continues to reraise me? Unless of course I have the nuts and simply can't be beat, which is possible but unlikely.

Click to expand...

Be more specific as to WHEN you are asking about raising and 3-betting....

Preflop with your hand, open for 3x~5x the BB.

If villain 3-bets you, it is up to you whether you continue IP (in position) or not.

Since we have K-Q, I would might call a 3-bet IP, but I might not. We should always be paying attention to what villain has done in the past, so we can accurately put him on a range.

However, 3-betting is generally not a bluff at these stakes.

I am really saying regardless of the results, these are the things I would have done differently.

We don't raise for info. We raise IF we think it is possible we have the best hand. We re-evaluate if we meet strong resistance.

I really am not that great at advising in spots such as this. I wish someone else would offer some input as well.

However, if you still have more questions, fire away. I will answer them to the best of my ability.

But be specific when you are talking about 3-betting as to what street, spot, etc. The blind is 1 bet, a raise is 2-bet, and a reraise is a 3-bet.

On the flop a bet is 1-bet, raise 2-bet, etc.

I am just saying this not because I think you don't know, but merely to make sure we are on the same page.

Now when I say 3x or 4x, I mean if you open (raise) preflop, make it 3 times the big blind. If the BB is $0.05, raise to $0.15 would be 3x. However, in micro cash games, I raise to 4x or more depending on villains and all that.

Now if there are limpers, a good formula is 3x + 1BB for every limper.
So if you are on the button with a good hand, and there are already 2 limpers, $0.15 + 2BB ($0.10), so open for $0.25

We are doing the raise to isolate people so we don't have to play a 5-way pot. And also for value because we are opening with a decent starting hand.