QTip Plays with a Maniac at the Table

TylerN

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in the first vid....is the utg raise with K2s just to isolate the maniac when we have position on him?
 
DawgBones

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Saw 1/2 of the first and will be back to watch the rest. Love the statement "If you're not willing to play big pots with them with what you would normally consider marginal hands you're going to find yourself in a lot of bad spots" Thanks QTip and looking forward to the rest:)
 
Poker Orifice

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Thanks for this!
 
nabmom

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Help finding this at DTB

Where can I find this on DTB? I'm searching the videos filtered by QTip but still can't find it. Is it part of another series?

Thanks.
 
TPC

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Where can I find this on DTB? I'm searching the videos filtered by QTip but still can't find it. Is it part of another series?

Thanks.

Yes, this video excerpt from on of his DTB videos. He just made the maniac part for CC. Not sure what the original video is titled.
 
Debi

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Owen will be in to answer your questions - so feel free to ask them here!
 
Q

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Hi crew. Life is returning to normal here from all the holiday festivities. This is part of the Full Tilt 6Max Small Stakes series from DTB.
 
Q

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in the first vid....is the utg raise with K2s just to isolate the maniac when we have position on him?

I'd consider that to be a value raise. Any king is going to play really well in position against a guy coming in with two random cards who will put lots of money in with any pair or draw and then some postflop. The players to my left were not very active, and I'll be in position against the bad player who is in the blinds. You'll see me do it again with J6s.
 
WVHillbilly

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You didn't mention it but I think the guy to the right of the maniac was trying to adjust because he 3bet you from the SB in the 1st hand of the 1st vid with J5s.

You later say you don't want to get in against him preflop in the AKs hand and you size your 4bet smaller because you want to be able to fold which leaves you in a pretty shitty spot post on the flop. Any thought to just flatting the maniac's 3bet and playing the hand with a slightly bigger SPR or getting it in against the original raiser (and very likely the maniac) if the original raiser 4bets?
 
midgetfactory

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thanks for the vid, interesting stuff
 
Q

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You didn't mention it but I think the guy to the right of the maniac was trying to adjust because he 3bet you from the SB in the 1st hand of the 1st vid with J5s.

You later say you don't want to get in against him preflop in the AKs hand and you size your 4bet smaller because you want to be able to fold which leaves you in a pretty shitty spot post on the flop. Any thought to just flatting the maniac's 3bet and playing the hand with a slightly bigger SPR or getting it in against the original raiser (and very likely the maniac) if the original raiser 4bets?

Hey WV. You bring up a couple good points.

Firstly, in the video, I seem to totally miss the showdown of their hands which is just an absolute tragedy. I do see the sb had a weak hand there; however, I doubt that's from any adjustment. The maniac hadn't really shown his colors to that point. I do see the sb's stat's there he has a pretty high 3bet% in the small blind. So, maybe he's just doing his thing there (and it's probably a great idea), and happened to get in a hand with that dude.

There was some discussion in the DTB forums on the AKs hand. I think that hand can be played reasonably in several different ways. Some argued for just shoving preflop, which I think is probably just fine. The one thing that made me pause there was this player's open first in MP was only 5%. I think at the time i had 97 hands on him, so it's tough to say if that's just card dead or what. Given the J5s 3bet, I think a shove is probably a good play. As I said, I missed that earlier. It was that 5% and his tight stats that made me not want to get it in with him.

After my smaller 4bet and the maniac's call, you're right with the weird SPR. Looking back at it, I think I would prefer a crai really. He probably isn't giving himself any free cards anyway.

I think there's too much value getting more money in the middle to just flat there preflop really.

So, looking back at it, I'd just prefer to shove pre and probably have that maniac call with a really wide range and have the MP player fold the majority of the time anyway. And again, on the flop, I'd prefer crai instead of my push.
 
WVHillbilly

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Hey WV. You bring up a couple good points.

Firstly, in the video, I seem to totally miss the showdown of their hands which is just an absolute tragedy. I do see the sb had a weak hand there; however, I doubt that's from any adjustment. The maniac hadn't really shown his colors to that point. I do see the sb's stat's there he has a pretty high 3bet% in the small blind. So, maybe he's just doing his thing there (and it's probably a great idea), and happened to get in a hand with that dude.

There was some discussion in the DTB forums on the AKs hand. I think that hand can be played reasonably in several different ways. Some argued for just shoving preflop, which I think is probably just fine. The one thing that made me pause there was this player's open first in MP was only 5%. I think at the time i had 97 hands on him, so it's tough to say if that's just card dead or what. Given the J5s 3bet, I think a shove is probably a good play. As I said, I missed that earlier. It was that 5% and his tight stats that made me not want to get it in with him.

After my smaller 4bet and the maniac's call, you're right with the weird SPR. Looking back at it, I think I would prefer a crai really. He probably isn't giving himself any free cards anyway.

I think there's too much value getting more money in the middle to just flat there preflop really.

So, looking back at it, I'd just prefer to shove pre and probably have that maniac call with a really wide range and have the MP player fold the majority of the time anyway. And again, on the flop, I'd prefer crai instead of my push.

Yeah I agree that just shoving preflop is fine and I too would prefer a crai on the flop to just shoving because I think the will bet ATC when checked to on the flop but probably only calls with decent equity (any pair, draws).

One other thing, you talk about buddy listing guys like this but in my experience they never seem to turn up again. You play much more than I and in a smaller player pool (higher stakes), so how often do you think you see players like this back at the tables?
 
Q

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One other thing, you talk about buddy listing guys like this but in my experience they never seem to turn up again. You play much more than I and in a smaller player pool (higher stakes), so how often do you think you see players like this back at the tables?

You're right. They're normally a flash in the pan. However, there is no cost to buddy list them, and the reward for catching him on one more visit is the nuts.
 
nabmom

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Hi crew. Life is returning to normal here from all the holiday festivities. This is part of the Full Tilt 6Max Small Stakes series from DTB.

Thanks, Owen.

After a lousy performance at 2NL yesterday, I took myself over to DTB and went back to the basics. Ended up watching some of your Academy basics and NL Starter Kit series. Yours is a very calming voice when one is on tilt from spewing chips!
 
Q

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Thanks, Owen.

After a lousy performance at 2NL yesterday, I took myself over to DTB and went back to the basics. Ended up watching some of your Academy basics and NL Starter Kit series. Yours is a very calming voice when one is on tilt from spewing chips!

:) Thanks. My voice has been compared to Mr. Rogers. Now I just need to change my shoes during a video.
 
Daniel72

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Very nice videos and explanations ! Loved the hands and useful tips against such maniacs, thanks !
 
absoluthamm

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Great video Owen. I love finding droolers like this, just wish they would come along more often. One question I have in regards to the other players at the table, do you feel like it is very often that just about no one at the table adjusts to the maniacs play(like your table). Really it seemed like only the guy on your right was the only one playing back at him besides you, but even he was pretty shy. It seems to me the majority of the time when I get a big drooler, there are a lot of times where there are one or two others that are adjusting with me to try to isolate him, which can become a pain in the ass.
 
Q

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Great video Owen. I love finding droolers like this, just wish they would come along more often. One question I have in regards to the other players at the table, do you feel like it is very often that just about no one at the table adjusts to the maniacs play(like your table). Really it seemed like only the guy on your right was the only one playing back at him besides you, but even he was pretty shy. It seems to me the majority of the time when I get a big drooler, there are a lot of times where there are one or two others that are adjusting with me to try to isolate him, which can become a pain in the ass.

Yeah, it was a real treat to have pretty much everyone ignoring the action. Many times it does turn into an absolute blood bath as everyone is trying to get in on the action, reisolating, etc. I've seen regs absolutely lose their minds in these moments. The maniacs are my favorite opponents. They make everything so exciting :)
 
WVHillbilly

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What are your thoughts on how to handle a situation where a couple of regs are fighting over the bad player (let's get away from the maniac and go with a station)? Let's say the bad player is slightly more concerned with calling big bets preflop but he's willing to limp/call with almost any 2 and get sticky with any pair postflop. Now say the reg to your right is isoing a wide range to try to get the fish all to himself. Obviously we can call a lot in position and make him play a little more straight up postflop but my question is more what do you do with say JJ+/AK in a case like this where if you 3bet the fish is probably gone and if you don't the reg will outflop you a decent % of the time? I've heard good players argue on both sides of this one but I'm just wondering if you think there is more money in flatting premiums in a situation like this than there is getting in a 3bet/4bet war with the reg while the fish cries about not getting to see a flop? :)
 
Q

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Good question:

While I've not sat down and worked out actual numbers, I can't help but think a reraise is the clear decision. There are just so many good things that can happen.

1. You can win 6bb without a flop.

2. The fish can call with a much wider range than you may expect. T9s is a mighty enticing hand.

3. The reg can 4bet a lot "knowing you know", which can bring 2 things:

a. You win 33 bb without a flop
b. You get all-in against a weaker than normal range.

4. You don't leave your 3bet range weak.

5. You don't play a big pair / top pair type hand with a large SPR (It gets complicated often).

6. You don't let both players realize a lot of equity and tend to get more money in the middle against stronger hands.

To sacrifice all this for some deception or to give the fish a 33% chance to catch some pair and put in a few bets seems to not even approach the benefits listed above.
 
bgomez89

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im sorry but could you explain the J6s hand and why you wanted to play the J7o hand? I understand that you wanted to keep the fish in but what happens when youre called by others who have position on you? Or were they not calling because the maniac was 3betting too much
 
Q

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im sorry but could you explain the J6s hand and why you wanted to play the J7o hand? I understand that you wanted to keep the fish in but what happens when youre called by others who have position on you? Or were they not calling because the maniac was 3betting too much

I'm not overly concerned about the other players entering the hand or if they have position on me. Basically, the implied odds for catching a pair with a card like a J are so high, that I need to get in the hand and can virtually disregard some other sane player having position on me. They'll likely not be driving the action anyway.
 
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