Protecting Your Hand

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Running Nose II

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The flop goes down and shows two cards of the same suit. The only player left checks. The pot is $100 and $20 to call. How much do you bet to protect your trips? You know from his previous plays that he knows the game. A $20 call is useless as the pot will be $120, and his $20 call will give him odds of 6/1 and he will call as his poy odds are 4/1. If you bet $100 the pot is $300 and his odds are reduced to 3/1.
Work out for yourselves how much you have to bet if there are two players against you and the first one calls ($100 pot, $20 to call) to make the second fold.
 
vinnie

vinnie

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This doesn't make a lot of sense. Who has bet the $20? What positions are each of the other players in? Are there no other draws and no other hands the opponent would call with? Are we assuming both players will call?
 
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ph_il

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What are the stack sizes? Blinds? Is this cash or MTT?
What was the preflop action?
Why are you only putting opponent on a flush draw range? Are there not other hands opponent could have that you want to induce a call with and not a fold?
 
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Rational Madman

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Calling isn't always useless... Can sometimes call so that they learn that whether you have nuts or pair on flop you call most raises. This is how I handle loose aggressives who are not 'dumb', I make my passive responses tame their later aggression.
 
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Running Nose II said:
The flop goes down and shows two cards of the same suit. The only player left checks. The pot is $100 and $20 to call. How much do you bet to protect your trips? You know from his previous plays that he knows the game. A $20 call is useless as the pot will be $120, and his $20 call will give him odds of 6/1 and he will call as his poy odds are 4/1. If you bet $100 the pot is $300 and his odds are reduced to 3/1.
Work out for yourselves how much you have to bet if there are two players against you and the first one calls ($100 pot, $20 to call) to make the second fold.
Click to expand...

If I understand you correctly, you're up against a player and have hit your set and the board has a flush draw and the only opponent you're up against has checked to you. Right?
So here's the thing, if he's holding flush draw (or any big draws) he's not folding any pot size bet, even an over-bet might not work; getting 2:1 (pot sized bet) on a 36%ish hand. If he has a pair, that big a bet might scare him, but he might still call top pair to see what you do on the turn. If he has nothing, your $20 bets enough to make him go away.

Anyways like everyone else are asking, it depends on the position, pre-flop action, type of player you're up against, etc.

On a side note, why are you trying to protect a monster? With monsters you should be extracting value, not trying to protect yourself.


vinnie said:
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Who has bet the $20? What positions are each of the other players in? Are there no other draws and no other hands the opponent would call with? Are we assuming both players will call?
Click to expand...

Hey Vinnie, how are you man? Don't see you much these days.
 
XXPXXP

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depends on your opponent's calling range
if he goes with flush draw -- and willing to call any size of the bet...stack off is the best.

hard to explain, there is an optimized betting size, but there is no fixed max ev betting size.
 
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Rational Madman

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XXPXXP said:
depends on your opponent's calling range
if he goes with flush draw -- and willing to call any size of the bet...stack off is the best.

hard to explain, there is an optimized betting size, but there is no fixed max ev betting size.
Click to expand...
Flaw of the computer thinker :) poker an art not science
 
vinnie

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Hey Vinnie, how are you man? Don't see you much these days.
Click to expand...

I am doing well. I have had some 'complications' from hurricane Irma that have kept me busy and distracted me from poker and being online. A large tree fell across the powerline to my house and onto my roof, plus my garage door was blown in by the winds. So, I was without power for a while and I have been busy getting These things taken care of. Garage door should be replaced today. Then it is just trying to get a roofer and dealing with my insurance company.

But, it is just a hassle and expensive. It could have been a lot worse, so I am grateful for how fortunate I was in the storm.

How have you been?
 
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vinnie said:
I am doing well. I have had some 'complications' from hurricane Irma that have kept me busy and distracted me from poker and being online. A large tree fell across the powerline to my house and onto my roof, plus my garage door was blown in by the winds. So, I was without power for a while and I have been busy getting These things taken care of. Garage door should be replaced today. Then it is just trying to get a roofer and dealing with my insurance company.

But, it is just a hassle and expensive. It could have been a lot worse, so I am grateful for how fortunate I was in the storm.

How have you been?
Click to expand...

Damn! Hope things get better soon.

I'm doing great, no hurricane to deal with here.:)
 
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i like to check board here see what others do small bet just smooth call if other players if not i reraise but want call still. If get a blank on turn i shove
 
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poker

"Playing poker is the art of seeing the world from within a person's mind"
"Playing poker is showing weakness in strength and squandering strength in weakness"
"For you to pretend that you have the best hand, the first to believe must be you"
 
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Running Nose II

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This is just a fairly simple exercise in pot odds and how to give your opponent the bad odds such that he will fold. There is no reason to overcomplicate the situatiom by knowing what happened before the flop, or who folded after the flop went down.
There are now only two players left in.
 
escurimX

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if I had in position play aggressive always
 
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Running Nose II

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See my reply at the foot of the post
 
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ph_il

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Running Nose II said:
This is just a fairly simple exercise in pot odds and how to give your opponent the bad odds such that he will fold. There is no reason to overcomplicate the situatiom by knowing what happened before the flop, or who folded after the flop went down.
There are now only two players left in.
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All information is crucial.

How I play a hand against a nit will be different vs a lag. How I play vs a raise/call or a raise/3bet/call will be different. How I play with 100BB effective stacks will be different vs 40BB effective stacks.

Also, I'd rather have my opponent call with bad odds than fold. If they fold, they're making correct decisions and I don't want that. I want them to make incorrect ones.
 
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