ProfKev85 - 4-Tabling 5NL 6-Max Video

I know it's been the standard to upload videos on megaload, but after compressing my original capture (which was originally 1 gig!!!), it still turned out to be a large file, roughly 265MB. So I'm currently uploading the video on google and I will post the link here once it's finished. You guys will be able to view the streaming video and not have to download the file, which will probably save a little time and some space on your comp. Maybe uploading videos on google shouldl be the new standard?

Video will be posted soon. Stay tuned.

From past experience, Google streaming video is very poor quality. Almost to the point of not being able to read the cards.

265MB is a pretty average sized file around here. I don't think anyone would have a problem downloading it from Megaupload.

Hmm, that sucks to hear that the quality will be degraded. I'm over halfway done with the upload to google, so hopefully at least the cards will be readable. Otherwise I'll have to upload onto Megaupload, although that's going to take an estimated 4 hours to do so.

kleitches said:

Hmm, that sucks to hear that the quality will be degraded. I'm over halfway done with the upload to google, so hopefully at least the cards will be readable. Otherwise I'll have to upload onto Megaupload, although that's going to take an estimated 4 hours to do so.

Click to expand...

4 hours? Nah. That stat should re-adjust when you start uploading. I'd say no more than 1 hour unless you have dial-up or something.

Yeah you're right, it's closer to 1.5 hours. I was almost 3/4 of the way done with the google upload but decided to scratch that because I don't want to run the risk of having my cards blurry on the streaming video. I'm uploading onto Megaupload now and it shouldn't be more than a couple hours before I post. Thanks for the advice, Stick.

Are you on dialup or something? BTW 250mb for a video is good dude.

It is!?!? I have a broadband connection and I seemed to think the video was supposed to be compressed to like 60MB or something. I thought I saw a post by someone that was saying they got their video to be that low. I think it was in the compression tutorial thread. Anyway here's the link to the vid, it finally finished. Feedback MUCH appreciated!!!

[old link ~tb]

Quick note to IceMonkey: Do you ever have problems encoding your videos? I actually had to do the rendering/encoding two times before it finally worked. It would get done with the rendering and then freeze at the encoding part. I don't know, maybe my machine is just slow. I've got a gig of ram though so I thought that would be sufficient.

Anyone?

downloading, will watch and reply tomorrow or monday. Just a little busy tonight.

D/L-ing now. Might be tomorrow for my reply, also.

Kleitches,
I am having the same prob with Camtasia, three times now, does the rendering and then freezes. Trying #4 now.

Real blurry, hard to see stack sizes/stats and sometimes even bet sizes, but I'll do what I can:

1. 37 seconds, you have AKo in the BB and the hijack raises you up 3x. You then 3-bet for 3 times his raise. I'd do much larger, probably something like 55-60 since you're oop.

2. I'm nitpicking, but in talking about his range, you weren't wrong at all. Unless you can eliminate JJ from what you think he holds it's still in his range. It's an extremely small part of his range just given the pure statistical combination analysis, but you weren't wrong by any stretch. Your thinking needs to be what is his range and what is the best line against this range. So let me ask you a question about it. You did mention PPs as a part of his range. Do you think he's folding a PP to a cbet? Is he folding AQ to a cbet? If you were to fire turn would he fold a PP? Personally most people I play against would at least peel that flop if they had like 99/TT and probably fold to a second barrel. If too many of them are calling all the way with PPs then I just like not cbetting and just a C/F here.

3. 5x raise from the button with KQo??? Is that standard at 5nl to get any FE whatsoever?

4. KQs UTG. I like the play preflop, postflop would like to hear logic. What kind of range are you putting him on? What is the purpose behind your bet? Also, that's an extremely dry flop, you don't really need to bet pot here, you can probably get away with a ~2/3 pot bet and get a cheaper bluff.

5. ~4:30, good bet with JTo. Any time there are limpers and you have position on them it's good to raise them up. They have a weak hand range and you'll have position postflop. The K32r flop is a super-dry flop and you definitely want to cbet there. You mentioned being afraid of being check-raised. Basically don't worry about it. There's no harm in bet-folding a flop. If there's a specific player doing this a lot to you it's possible to consider either cbetting into him less (thus with a narrower and stronger range, thus you get paid off when you hit flops) or else re-raising his C/R.

6. ~7:00, QJo in the BB, SB completes. I raise this every single time preflop. You're going to be in position and again his range is extremely weak. I would do this with almost ATC and QJo definitely makes the cut. Postflop I would probably call one street basically because you've shown no strength whatsoever in the hand, but preflop I would definitely raise that.

7. ~8:10, QJo on the button. Like the raise, but when a flop comes down that drawy I'm not sure I like a raise there, and I REALLY don't like that you're considering stacking that flop. Basically those situations with a drawy flop you are looking at either being barely ahead or way behind. If he's willing to stack he most likely has a hand like KQ or 89d, maybe AQd, I'm thinking AKd would 3-bet preflop, or else he has a hand that has you crushed like JT, a set, even AJ maybe (and I guess J9 lol). I guess I'd probably call flop here and re-evaluate on turn. If turn is a blank that kills the equities of the draws, and you now can get some money in against them. What worse hands do you think stack here against you?

8. ~12:12 you discuss good tables. Obviously a 50%+ vp$ip is golden, but I think more you should be looking at individual players. How many 70/4 type players are there? These are the guys you love. The TAG players ~18/16 - 24/22 are the tougher ones and if a player is good even a ~30/28 can be solid. Those are the ones you want to avoid. Also you want to avoid situations where a shortstack is directly to your left because they make it really tough to adjust. (ok shoulda waited, you did sorta go over the individual players after I wrote that)

9. ~13:20 in the upper right you post out of turn. Hopefully you're just doing it for the video, because it is a horrible practice. You're paying an extra big blind for 2 extra hands. This means unless your winrate is over 25 BB/100 (ie you win over $2.50 every 100 hands) this is a losing decision, just as costly as calling without odds or making a stupid move at the table. But as long as it's just this once for the video it's probably fine.

10. ~13:30 A8 you cbet. Although I'd still cbet that flop, it's not as dry as the previous one. The previous one was such a clear cbet while this one here there are a lot more hands that hit at least a piece of this flop. Hands like JT/67, even 78/89 have gutshots and QJ has the open-ender. K32r is just super-dry.

11. ~14:40, 55 on the Q42 2-toned board, I'd just C/F that, even after he checks behind on the flop. Especially now that the 4 pairs you're not folding out many better hands (66-JJ will probably peel at least the turn) and you're not getting much value from anything worse (2x? I think that would just fold). You also make it incredibly easy for an opponent to just float the one street and bluff the river like that because basically if you have a hand you probably would also bet river.

12. ~15:30, A3 against the ss. If I read the numbers right (pot=3.22, call=.95) you need to win here 22%. If the gutshot and the A are good, you have 7 outs which is around 30%. Now obviously once in a while they're not. You could be drawing dead to 44/54 or slim if he just has a 5. I'd make the choice depending on stats. Usually shortstacks fall into 2 categories, a nit or a spewtard. If he's got anything over like a 15% vp$ip I'd call this in a heartbeat, because there's also a good shot he's doing this with overs in which case you're actually ahead.

13. ~15:50, 88 bottom left table in the CO, it's folded to you and you just limp. I'd like a raise there

14. ~16:00 56s in the upper right. You seem to raise to 5x no matter what. With all the limpers I'd raise more on the button there. Same hand why are you raising the flop? Do you think better hands fold? Do you think worse hands call? Do you think you're ahead enough that the hand's worth protecting?

15. ~17:00, you flop an OESD in the upper left. Flop and turn is fine, but river I'd like a bet just because the flush draw missed and you know an A would have bet. Maybe he looks you up with like 99, but I think folding out the better draws (9T/J9/69/any higher flush draw) outweighs that. Sure it's easy after I've seen the results but I promise you I was thinking that before seeing his hand. He may even fold a PP there. Few seconds later you use the phrase "big mistake" in not betting. Just so you know it was NOT a big mistake. When the decision is close, which this one was because PPs are probably looking you up, no play is horrible. Just because this one lost you the pot doesn't make it a huge mistake. If he showed you the hand and THEN you checked it would be a huge mistake. But against his range neither checking nor betting would be a huge mistake.

Alright, gotta go eat, about halfway through, I'll comment on the rest later today hopefully.

I'm about 1/3 done watching. Yes, too blurry. If you are having compression issues, try using the free compression software called "Super". I record my videos with Camstudio at higher quality AVI settings and then compress them down to an AVI 25% of size with Super. Little or no quality lost. My last AVI was about 30 mins long and was only 45MB with pretty good quality.

I'll watch a little more before I give comment on hands.

zachvac said:

3. 5x raise from the button with KQo??? Is that standard at 5nl to get any FE whatsoever?

Click to expand...

Hey Zach, could you elaborate on this? I think I'm guilty of this also and I'm just starting to incorporate fold equity considerations into my thought process during hands. Might help other folks to discuss this, too.

MrSticker said:

Hey Zach, could you elaborate on this? I think I'm guilty of this also and I'm just starting to incorporate fold equity considerations into my thought process during hands. Might help other folks to discuss this, too.

Click to expand...

Sorry took so long to respond here.

Basically there are 2 reasons we raise preflop. First we want to build a pot with a good hand. If we have AA we don't want people getting in cheap. Even if we have AK we don't want a 6-way pot without them paying more than just 1 BB.

Secondly is to steal the blinds. Without blinds, you could simply wait for AA preflop and play it. But the blinds give us an incentive to raise and steal the pot even if we have a worse hand.

But most hands we raise with actually have both purposes. We raise 78s on the button. We want the blinds to fold but if they do call we have a good hand postflop and we have position on our opponents. So this does both, gets some opponents to fold and builds a pot with what could potentially be a good hand. Also when you incorporate c-betting the preflop raise can build the pot to set up the c-bet.

So anyway, my fold equity comment has to do with how often we get people to fold.

One more concept actually I should cover, and that is cheap and expensive bluffs. Say the pot's $1. You bluff by betting $5. Although that is likely to get a fold, you need to be successful (assuming no equity when called) 5/6 = 83% of the time. Instead say you bluff for half pot. Much more likely you get called but you only have to be successful 1/3=33%. So when we bluff we want to raise an amount that will get folds but still give us a good price on our bluff.

So back to a preflop raise. Most online poker games I've seen usually have people raising ~3-4 BBs preflop with no limpers. But when I talk to people who play live they say if you raise that much you get 4-5 callers. So most live players raise something like 6 BBs. Because of having to raise more you are thus getting a worse price for a bluff, so should be betting the better part of your range. If you could get called 100% of the time you shoved, you'd just sit back and wait for a top hand and shove. That would be getting no fold equity (fold equity is simply the equity you have by winning a pot when you bluff and opponents fold). So you want a happy medium between limping, in which case most likely you get a ton of callers, and shoving, which in most cases gets all but the best hands to fold. You want a raise size that will likely thin the field or have a chance of taking it down preflop for the bluffs, and you want a raise size that is also going to be called a decent enough amount to get big hands paid off.

I haven't played much 2nl (apart from CC games) so I was asking if that was the standard raise needed to basically get any respect. To get people to fold as well as get action from the better hands.

Hopefully that made sense, and I'll try to watch the second part of the video soon.

In my limited experience it varies a lot.

Sometimes you get no respect whatsoever raising 4xbb or even 5 in an unopened pot and will get a million callers. And other times raising to 4xbb even with a limper gets you all folds. Depends on the tables I guess, passive/loose/tight etc..

I usually raise 15c or 20c with a limper and reraise I figure out depending on how much they bet and what I think they have etc.