Pot odds?

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lost2qandisa

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Do pot odds really matter in a tourney? Example: I had KJ suited. I called a 5 X BB bet. On the flop was a Q and a 10 rainbow flop. There were 4 other people all in by the time it got to me. In a cash game that would make the pot odds too good to fold the draw. In the tourney, however, it was all or nothing. So do you still push on a draw based on risk reward or do you fold it and survive to play some more. I pushed. I busted. :D
 
steveiam

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I wouldn't have called with the KJ in the first place.
 
IntenseHeat

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In a situation like this, with so many callers in front of me, I have to think that at least one player must have hit the flop and be ahead of me. I usually prefer not to be getting my chips in on a draw. You're basicly putting yourself in a a position where you have to get lucky. What you also have to consider in multiway pots like this is that with so many callers, not all of them could have hit the flop. Others are likely to be drawing as well. Which means they are likely to be holding some of your outs. Sometimes you just have to get out of the way. You have to know when to duck, goose.
 
micromachine

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Do pot odds really matter in a tourney? Example: I had KJ suited. I called a 5 X BB bet. On the flop was a Q and a 10 rainbow flop. There were 4 other people all in by the time it got to me. In a cash game that would make the pot odds too good to fold the draw. In the tourney, however, it was all or nothing. So do you still push on a draw based on risk reward or do you fold it and survive to play some more. I pushed. I busted. :D

Of course pot odds matter in a tourney. You don't give any info on stack sizes, blind levels or info on the other players so we can't say for sure if your play was good or not. But, you have a ~32% chance of hitting your straight by the river so if you can at least triple up then calling is fine. Whether you can triple up or not will depend on the stack sizes of the players already all in but with 4 others already in it is likely that you can at least triple up.
 
Arjonius

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Pot odds definitely matter in tournaments. However, other things can factor into your decisions as well. For instance, do you want to take a 1 in 3 chance of tripling up if it means you'll be busted or crippled the other 2/3 of the time? There's no perfect answer to this question. It depends on other factors, which may partly or even wholly subjective.

Even if we put the pot odds somewhat in your favor, meta factors can affect your decision.
 
dj11

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Good question, well put (IMHO). It might have been nice to have the hand details, position, stack sizes, blind levels etc.etc. But because we all see this situation often, taking a general approach for answering this is fine. Again, JMHO.

I hate pot odds. In tourney's the pure math odds are the same as ring games, but you have to incorporate that info differently.

I would have easily folded out of that pot. Mainly because there are so many players involved, and my tourney life was on the line with only a draw. If this were 1 on 1, I would have called.
 
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lost2qandisa

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It was early in the tourney. The blinds were 25/50 if I remember correctly. It was a freeroll, not sure if that matters. All four sacks in were 1K+. I had 1432. Had I hit, it would have been a great start early. So, from what I gather, I probably should have folded which was my gut feeling.
 
micromachine

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NO! According to pot odds you should've called.

Lets say all 4 stacks already in were exactly 1k so the pot was 4k. You needed to call 1k to win 5k so the call amount is 20% of the pot you can win. The chance of hitting your straight is 32%. As this is considerably higher than 20% pot odds dictate that calling would be correct here. The pot odds were probably even better than that as I assumed that everyone had 1k and in fact some of the villains probably had more than that.
 
micromachine

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I would have easily folded out of that pot. Mainly because there are so many players involved, and my tourney life was on the line with only a draw. If this were 1 on 1, I would have called.

:confused: What? It is the fact that so many players are in which makes calling a good option. Heads up it's probably a fold
 
dj11

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:confused: What? It is the fact that so many players are in which makes calling a good option. Heads up it's probably a fold

Is it not reasonable to think that we wouldn't be the only drawing hand, and that 2 pair hands already exist on the flop? Or that at least one of those drawing hands was AK,AJ, or even 9J? And contain at least a backdoor flush draw?

I value my tourney life more than 4-8 outs. It seems very likely many of our outs are in play already, so we may actually be drawing dead, or close to dead.

HU, I probably would not fold.

But, Like I said earlier, from a pure poker POV, the pot odds say call. And in a ring game situation, I would call there. Just not in a tourney under the circumstances as presented.
 
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ferdi332

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Do pot odds really matter in a tourney? Example: I had KJ suited. I called a 5 X BB bet. On the flop was a Q and a 10 rainbow flop. There were 4 other people all in by the time it got to me. In a cash game that would make the pot odds too good to fold the draw. In the tourney, however, it was all or nothing. So do you still push on a draw based on risk reward or do you fold it and survive to play some more. I pushed. I busted. :D
Thats what most players do go all in on a draw . Check your odds and leave the gambling . If you did not comit to muh of your cash in that hand rather fold and get all your chips in when you have the best hand . The reward will be much bigger :confused:
 
hobonc

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Pot odds should be considered in tourney play but should be secondary to your decisions regarding tourney life. If one is short stacked (assuming you didn't shove pre in this case) then its probably a good time to take the odds. If you are still stacked, then it may not be a good spot to do so.
 
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