Pot Control

Im interested in the concept and application of Pot control . why would i use it and in what situation ? in a cash game and in MTTs ,i have a good idea ,but im interested in anybodys experience on the subject and would love to hear peoples input ,

we have AA(no spades) and raise 3x on the button. we have 35 bb.

we get called by the small blind(random), and the big blind(loose, but aggressive postflop).

flop is KQ6, two spades, we c-bet and get called by the big blind.
we're thinking, no big deal, look like we have our sucker! range could be pairs, draws etc. turn is a jack of spades.

we're thinking, not a great card, it completes a few draws, possibly two pair card etc. now we know this guy is really aggro postflop, so if we bet, there's a possiblility that he might turn hands into bluffs, and put us in a tough situation by raising us. he could be turning his hand into a bluff, for example, K9 and raising because he believes he has the best hand. or he could be raising because he has us crushed with one of the draws that hit the board.

so villian checks. we check back for pot control.

river is a blank, and he bets pot, we call and turn over the best hand.

but don't we lose value here if he has hands we beat?

yes, but no at the same time. lets say he just called with whatever garbage and has very little chance of out drawing us. we might pick up extra value by checking back and letting him bet the river. survival is important in tournaments. we can double up in this spot, but also, we can take a few less chips here, and safety navigate our way through the tournament.

lets say the flop is 5 6 k, and we c-bet. we get called by the bb again.

turn is a Q, no flush hits. do we pot control again?
no, that's not a card that bothers us too much, he could have two pair, but congrats to him if he does, we're betting again for value and hopefully shoving it all in on the river.

Pot control is a tactic in poker.
I usually use it when I dont know where I stand and simply want to go to showdown. Usually, they are also using against me.

hffjd2000 said:

Pot control is a tactic in poker.
I usually use it when I dont know where I stand and simply want to go to showdown. Usually, they are also using against me.

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I think this is the best way to put it. You don't want to finish the hand, lose a bunch of chips and think "Wow, that escalated quickly!"

Basically it helps when you are in position, know what the stack sizes are, and can control the size of the pot to keep you from going into uncomfortable situations.

I think it's most applicable to tournaments where the chips in your hand are worth more than your opponents chips.

You don't want to risk half your stack on a hand like top pair, but you want to get to showdown. But if you bet the turn (1k) and he check raises (3k) then leads out on the river (5k+) -- you don't know if you're folding the winner. It's become much too expensive for top pair. But if you checked behind on the turn, you can afford to call the 1-2k river bet which is not going to be that much more than what you would have bet on the turn.

Pot control mean the same thing block bet?

pot control? isn't that like the war on drugs???

micalupagoo said:

pot control? isn't that like the war on drugs???

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When it gets smoky in the kitchen because everything is overflowing onto the stove burners, that's a lack of pot control.:viking:

AA qq kk I'll always all in
3x raise aq aj ak
suited equaled

juanmapoker1 said:

AA qq kk I'll always all in
3x raise aq aj ak
suited equaled

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In my opinion, it is really bad decision. You should read and see some videos about raises with monsters and strong hands.

Diogo Jorge said:

Pot control mean the same thing block bet?

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yes and no, a blocking bet is something you might do when your out of position. in a spot where you don't want to check and let your opponent bet an amount they want and put you in a tough position to call.

for example, on the river we have middle pair, our opponent called our bet on the turn and he's aggressive when checked to, or has a very high bet % on our hud.

we might want to bet like 1/4 pot or smaller, to 'block' his bet on the river. it's very hard for them to raise us without a big hand, if they do, it's an easy fold for us. if they call, we then got to showdown for a much cheaper price, if we just checked and they bet 1/2 pot and we're behind, not only are we guessing about if we're ahead in the hand, we might make a mistake and fold the best hand, and also, we just paid more to get to showdown.

so in regards to your question, a blocking bet is a means to control the pot on the river when you are out of position with a hand you want to see a showdown with cheaply.

WiZZiM said:

for example, on the river we have middle pair, our opponent called our bet on the turn and he's aggressive when checked to, or has a very high bet % on our hud.

we might want to bet like 1/4 pot or smaller, to 'block' his bet on the river. it's very hard for them to raise us without a big hand, if they do, it's an easy fold for us. [...]

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Im just curious... I mean, with our hand (middle pair) we may have some showdown value so by betting small we want to be called by worse hands but we also accept that sometimes we will be called by better hands (like...same pair but with a better kicker). If he raises its a fold ofc (like you said). So that being said, isn't it just thin value betting?

Fknife said:

Im just curious... I mean, with our hand (middle pair) we may have some showdown value so by betting small we want to be called by worse hands but we also accept that sometimes we will be called by better hands (like...same pair but with a better kicker). If he raises its a fold ofc (like you said). So that being said, isn't it just thin value betting?

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yeah, but it's in spots where we're really unsure if we have the best hand or not. we think we do, but we don't want to have a guy put in a 3/4 or pot bet to find out. like sometimes we might be playing a hu match, and we have ace high on a dry board, we think we probably have the best hand, but if we check we know our opponent will likely bet an amount that forces us to fold. by betting, it makes it harder for him to bluff us, as now he has to bet a much much bigger amount to get us to fold.

like in the above situation, lets say the pot is 500. our bet might be 100-150. if we check, he might bet 400. now we have a really tough situation on our hands and we still have no clue if he's betting with something or without something.



so yes, we have to accept that sometimes we're behind, but we just paid a much cheaper price for it. also, like you touched on, we might actually squeeze out some value from hands that wouldn't call a bigger 1/2 pot or 3/4 pot bet.

It should be legal dammit.

WiZZiM said:

[..]
so yes, we have to accept that sometimes we're behind, but we just paid a much cheaper price for it. also, like you touched on, we might actually squeeze out some value from hands that wouldn't call a bigger 1/2 pot or 3/4 pot bet.

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That does make sense. Thank you.

Three more questions about pot control (you seem like you know alot (sharkscope ) so I might as well ask and learn sth).

1. How do you pot control OOP? Check-raising flop/turn so maybe opponent will check back turn/river? On which boards?

2. How do you know, when you should pot control? I mean you cant just slow down everytime sb raises you, or there is a flush/straight/scary card on the board... Which HUD stats do you use (and how)? It's all about ranges, right?

3. How does pot control relate to Showdown Theory? In "Easy Game", Andrew Seidman says that you should check behind when:
- you're unlikely to get called by a worse hand
- you're unlikely to be outdrawn

He gives an example than on A22r board, we should be more inclined to bet TT than KK (check behind) because KK cannot really be outdrawn (high turn/river card etc) and by betting we really only isolate ourselves with hands that beat us (and if we check we continue to play against a wider range that we are ahead of)...

Fknife said:

That does make sense. Thank you.

Three more questions about pot control (you seem like you know alot (sharkscope ) so I might as well ask and learn sth).

1. How do you pot control OOP? Check-raising flop/turn so maybe opponent will check back turn/river? On which boards?
checking, or by betting really small amounts. like instead of the conventional 1/2 pot to 3/4 pot betting, why not bet 1/3 pot. in a lot of situations we can build smaller pots like that. pot control is far, far easier when we are in position though, which is why position is so important.

check-raising is usually a way to build a pot. but we can do things like min check-raising to slow them down. but usually they will bet sometime if we just check back turn/river. so we might have to do things like mincheck-raise, bet 1/3 pot turn bet 1/4 pot river to keep it really small and not bloat the pot, it all depends on how deep we are playing and weather or not after we make our play at the pot, do we have a backup of chips available to continue the tournament, i usually want at least 8bb at least after i make a play at a pot so that i have folding equity if my play doesn't work.
2. How do you know, when you should pot control? I mean you cant just slow down everytime sb raises you, or there is a flush/straight/scary card on the board... Which HUD stats do you use (and how)? It's all about ranges, right?
mostly board types, and opponent ranges. like a loose player is likely to have hands on a lot of different board types. a tight player is only likely to have hands that hit high card boards. it also has a lot to do with the tournament situation you are playing, what stage of the tournament you are in, and how many bb you have. hud stats help for sure, but it's just giving you an indicator of what a players range might be, you have to interpret the stats correctly
3. How does pot control relate to Showdown Theory? In "Easy Game", Andrew Seidman says that you should check behind when:
- you're unlikely to get called by a worse hand
- you're unlikely to be outdrawn

He gives an example than on A22r board, we should be more inclined to bet TT than KK (check behind) because KK cannot really be outdrawn (high turn/river card etc) and by betting we really only isolate ourselves with hands that beat us (and if we check we continue to play against a wider range that we are ahead of)...

i think you just answered some of question 2 and all of question 3 :

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Pot control?? They figured it out in Colorado. Oh Wait, wrong kind of pot