Positional play

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PW300

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I understand the reasons why position is important, but in low stake cash games/tournaments, i find it is less important. If you play micro/low stake games, players out of position who connect with the board in some way will a lot of the time just shove their stack in or call you to a showdown thinking their pair will win. Also in games like Omaha, a lot of hands connect with the board in some way so again position doesn't seem to be that important because these players will again draw to the river regardless of what you raise with. These are just my observations and it may be that I'm not using my position to its full effect but I would be interested to see if anyone agrees with me.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Disagree here, strongly, you have even highlighted the beauty of position.

Ok, so somebody shoves all in with a hand. If you are in position you can just fold your air/moderate hands without having invested any more into the pot. Whereas you might have continuation bet oop and now have to fold and lose those chips.
 
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Disagree here, strongly, you have even highlighted the beauty of position.

Ok, so somebody shoves all in with a hand. If you are in position you can just fold your air/moderate hands without having invested any more into the pot. Whereas you might have continuation bet oop and now have to fold and lose those chips.

I'm not saying position isn't important. I just find that in low stake games, if you try to use position to your advantage and raise or reraise players, they normally just fire back at you if they have connected in any way at all with the board. I presume in higher stake games that if someone in late position reraised, the early players are more likely to fold their marginal hands, not fire a call back, or a reraise at you, like in low stake games.
 
dmitriy skripka

dmitriy skripka

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I understand the reasons why position is important, but in low stake cash games/tournaments, i find it is less important. If you play micro/low stake games, players out of position who connect with the board in some way will a lot of the time just shove their stack in or call you to a showdown thinking their pair will win. Also in games like Omaha, a lot of hands connect with the board in some way so again position doesn't seem to be that important because these players will again draw to the river regardless of what you raise with. These are just my observations and it may be that I'm not using my position to its full effect but I would be interested to see if anyone agrees with me.
don't think so too that there are people who are connected with the..., many times I have noticed the consistency of the cards which drop out,well, a man can not go to Hollins 4,5 offsuit and beat three opponents,the impression that he knows what he will come.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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I'm not saying position isn't important. I just find that in low stake games, if you try to use position to your advantage and raise or reraise players, they normally just fire back at you if they have connected in any way at all with the board. I presume in higher stake games that if someone in late position reraised, the early players are more likely to fold their marginal hands, not fire a call back, or a reraise at you, like in low stake games.

Dude, this is a given. At microstakes players tend to bet hands and fold air, and make it pretty damn obvious which one they hold.

I think perhaps your problem is trying to bluff with air at the microstakes (just because you have position) against people who are never going to fold.
 
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Pavel Davydov

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I agree that position has little effect on the game at the microlimits and 100% inefficient in freerolls in start tournament
 
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Dude, this is a given. At microstakes players tend to bet hands and fold air, and make it pretty damn obvious which one they hold.

I think perhaps your problem is trying to bluff with air at the microstakes (just because you have position) against people who are never going to fold.

My problem is that with positional advantage and the fact that I may have the better hand after the flop, if they hit even bottom pair and are out of pos, they still call any raise you make. it's almost as if they think they can't lose just because they have hit a pair on the flop. Hands go to a showdown a lot more at micro/ low stakes because a lot of players don't care about position.
 
PapaC

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For one thing. you need to make a believer out of 1 or 2 sometimes. at least that is how I do when I get tired of their BS. I was thinking a day or two ago at how many players at FF and BCP have stopped doing a lot of all ins, and are doing more 3 or 4 bets. I want to put this here before I forget it Awhile back there was a lot of talk about Full Flush closing their doors and not pay us. and I been a promoter of the site on my own just because I like the site and I've always done real well there. and I have never worried about losing my BR there. so I have also noticed that many of the older players have come back so the site has more players. Ok back to the subject. As I play I think about position and what cards I can play in every position. I have never done any thing that I/m doing. now. and many times it works to think before you click. GL you all
 
jashiggs

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My problem is that with positional advantage and the fact that I may have the better hand after the flop, if they hit even bottom pair and are out of pos, they still call any raise you make. it's almost as if they think they can't lose just because they have hit a pair on the flop. Hands go to a showdown a lot more at micro/ low stakes because a lot of players don't care about position.
Well as you have pointed out....you only 'may' have the better hand. If you have observed your opponents tendancies and believe he will call you down with his middle pair then you need to wait until you have a hand that will atleast beat his middle pair / 2 pair and take all his chips. On the other side of the coin if this guy tends to only call your raise oop when he's got the goods then you can probably safely fold your q high.
 
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When you have position, you'll make more money with your best hands and lose less money with your 2nd best hands.
 
thetick33

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disagree with this fully

your problem is table image period. You have to give self an image. I just started again this last week. It generally takes 1 month maybe 2 months of playing same events freerolls where people get my game finally. poker isnt built in a day kinda like the world you know? God built etc.. I help my table image by showing hand after hand after hand especially nutt hands.

This helps my image and gets people more inclined to lay down garbage later where I get more aggressive with position moves or bluffs.

I dont care how you do it but you must grow your table position in order to advance your positional advantage. Guys see same thing over and over you winning you at final events etc.. you showing quality hands etc.. they get the picture and are easier to lay down secondary hands or chases.

Play with fire get burned is concept. I made a huge bluff this week and guy played back into me 4 raises I was impressed know he was bluffing imho and out bluffed me this is rare as can get. I still won money but he took 3-4 of my stack at that point but im telling you by the end? everyone at that table had respect for my play. Especially how I came back and worked some bluffs. The biggest bluffing is when you show but you got to be careful with that. You can inspire some big calls when you dont want it.

This is a thinking game you have to outsmart your opponent you have tools you use them position is a major tool. Yet you still need a table image to make things like position work imho
 
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also disagree, even at .01/.02 position has a huge influence. Despite the occasional player that will donk in to you 95% of players will not do this.
 
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I like to take a lot of flops when in position if my cards got any kind of straight or flush quantum's. If i flop an open-ender, I will always bet/raise unless jammed into, because a lot of players tend to check to the raiser. That way I can follow check the turn to basically get two free cards. Or bet/ raise the turn to get an easy river check if you are not to sure on where you belong in the hand. This play can be used with any draws or unsure pairs.:deal:
 
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