Poker strategy for a poor flop

Okay, Here's my question... How do you respond to a poor flop when all you have is just an OK hand? Here's the situation:

I get a reasonably strong hand (JQsuited, JJ, TT, etc... whatever) I make a small raise. The flop comes out: 375 rainbow.
The table's been playing tight so it's unlikely that anyone who called would do so without a strong hand. What do you do? check or make another bet?

This sort of situation came up during play today and I just wasn't too sure about how to play it... :stupido2:

Probably depends on your position, their stats, stack and position.

Best to post the real hand in the hand analysis thread and you'll get some opinions about the best play.

remember the only 2 ways to win are 1.have the best hand and 2. have the other guy fold they can only fold if you make a bet when you check with nothing on a flop like that you show weakness and invite being bluffed

So you're saying that I should bluff. bet, or further invest in the hand... but my hand won't stand up to anything like AK or KQ. What usually happens for me is that as the hand progresses, and if cards keep coming weak, I chicken out of the pot even though I'm sure there's nothing on the table that will help anyone. I'm just losing more money if someone calls my bluff with a stronger hand.

This is an good example of a question that has no specific answer. See twoturntablez post above and post a HH with any reads on villain you may have.

And if you have an overpair vs Ax, you are in great shape and need to bet.

bet for value or as a bluff, check because betting isnt profitiable or to pot control/induce if you arent folding.

Make the C-bet without question, you're the aggressor, be aggressive.

you're generalizing to much imo
Each situation is a situation, no specific form of playing just by your 2 cards and the flop, that's the beauty of poker...

While it is true that every situation in poker is specific, there are absolutely winning "patterns" of play.

Firstly, your post needs some clarification. Position and stack size of both you and your opponents are the two most important details that should be included in any post such as this.

However, in your example you state the table is playing tight. In this situation I will c-bet 100% of the time. A 3-5-7 rainbow flop is almost as good as flopping huge in a tight game. In fact, with a hand like QJ, a small flop is better in a tight game as many times a flop that hits your QJ hand hits the tight players much harder.

C-bet and see what happens. If they are really that tight you will win enough uncontested flops that it will offset the ones that you lose to small sets or middle pairs.

Definately bet. You may probibally wont get raised. Fold if you do. If you get called you may be able to check it down or hit on a later street. Being seen bluffing is ok because it helps you get action when you actually have a hand.

If you limped and let both SB and BB enter, ITS OVER FOLD, if the blinds fold meaning you raised then you have narrowed down the field and then can start defining your villians ranges if you just called a lil raise post flop(DONT), pop it up and start trying to feel out what your up aganst You start giving free cards, just fold now but I dont even know what posiiton youre in to understand. EP FOLD any of those hand your listed as playable. DONT BLEED cause some players will make a scratch turn into an amputation KNOWYOUR ENEMY

but this type stuff is harder to execute than write about but if youre strong and none of those hands you mentioned are, what postion are you

todays example without any bet sizes

YOU TJo vs Q8o (forget any flush draws)

flop 8Q2 Turn 9 River 8

lay out the betting here as Id love to figre outhow to get someone off two pairs when you werent sure what they had ut knewyou were dead at the river (you do know this river would drown you) hint at 100/200level 2.4K didnt make a villian fold to a made turn straight) is a 2outter dude a gambler or a higher strategy player and this I dunno myself but this is one ofyour playable reasonable strong hands OOP of course

had nothng to go on with this player but that river cost me 2k more cause I wasnt sure if he had AQ butin my heart I knew he had the boat

and watch some more experienced players are gonna jump my shit HERES THE WHOLE LAYOUT

SB (ME)= JTo, I just call since i had 5 limpers and multiway pot might strike gold or might really set a bad tone to this MTT

BLINDS 50/100 600 in pot

FLOP 8h Qh 2d Checks all the way around and the button raises it up so maybe heres the first mistake let me work this out and (IF IM WORKING THIS WRONG PLEASE TELL ME)

1200 in pot I have to call 600 for 1200 so 2-1 with 8 outs 40% So if this dude isnt offering me 2.5 to 1 I should of folded plus the OOP stuff but I call

GOLD BABY TURN - 9c THIS IS SUCH A WELL DISQUISED straight that I just shouted out I got it (not out loud but in my actions) I raise it 2.4K so now I put 2.4K into a appox 3.3K pot. Now this dude has to call 2.4K to win 3.3K (DID I priced this dude out or IN even if he had a set or 2 PAIR) OR 2 PAIR OR 2 PAIR nah he calls the 2.4k raise and we have a pot now and from what I see he has 2 outs here

POT appox 5.5K and the dagger the slip kid the oh well

RIVER=Qd

OK SO Im 90% sure I am beat now and that my striaght is no good, NOt sure what to do, so I turn off the heat and check to get a 2K call now Im being over 2.5 to 1 to lose but what if IM wrong

Nah im right MY straight (and so well disquised) floating on a boat down the river with Q8 flipped ( I have no reads on this player except for the mirrored shades he wore) and what he had AQ, I dont think many people had me on a turn straight, esp when I hear dude had nut straight on turn.

lets take out the hands being played and just wondering what calls were good or bad by hero or villian WHOS CALLING and WHOS FOLDING on the river, I knew I should of folded but I wasnt 100% sure

mm now that I think about it I think the turn bet I was offering 2,4K to win 5.6K now thats makes a big difference but being so disqisd Imsure an all inbet would of got me a call sicne we had 4K chips GAWD THis MATH is KILLING ME **** maybe a shove would of made the odds wrong, didt never fold cause he had the right odds WE HAD NO READS ON EACH OTHER LEVEL 2 -- oh yea this was $75 bi plus all the etras (trying to give variables andCHIP STACKS WERE EQUAL so Im glad he didnt shove river)

frodobaggins said:

So you're saying that I should bluff. bet, or further invest in the hand... but my hand won't stand up to anything like AK or KQ. What usually happens for me is that as the hand progresses, and if cards keep coming weak, I chicken out of the pot even though I'm sure there's nothing on the table that will help anyone. I'm just losing more money if someone calls my bluff with a stronger hand.

Click to expand...

Consider folding hands like KT or J9 suited in early-middle position, especially confronted with a raise. A common mistake I make is trying to limp those hands and then getting sucked into playing them for a raise. 90% of the time I have to fold on the flop, so why did I limp in the first place. This is a common leak among us weak-tight players who are trying to make the transition to TAG.

Also, when you open on the flop, and you don't know what to do, it's better to lead than check in these situations. And make sure you lead the same when you have a hand as when you don't. This will often require a second barrel on the turn... but I get a lot of folds that way and those second barrel situations are the ones where you actually win a decent size pot...

You're asking about a type of situation, not a specific one, This means the factors to consider and how much weight each should carry can lead to different actions being most appropriate. For example, even if the cards are the same, it can be better to take different lines against different types of opponents. Other things matter too. For instance, with QJs on a raggedy rainbow flop, you can feel better betting into one weak passive opponent who "plays his own cards" than into multiple tricky aggressive players who have shown more table feel and the willingness to 3bet light.

Poker players have to deal with this situation quite often at a cash table or a MTT tournament, when to fire a bet on the flop and when not to; when we do not hit the flop.

I play a humanistic approach to poker, I first am putting my opponent on an exact hand preflop. Since your post said you opened raised and got a call; I would have already put him on a hand then when you gave the 375 rainbow flop as the example and I put my opponent lets say on AK then I for sure would fire a bet on the flop.

Now when my opponent calls and I have them on this exact hand and the danger cards do not come out on the turn this is where we have to understand our opponent even more in depth, is he or she going to call if they do not hit their hand on the turn. On the turn lets say a another small card comes out will our opponent continue with the hand?

I have found out most do not but if my read is correct and I have been watching and reading the table then it comes down to our prior play at the table and our opponents prior play and also what we think of our opponent and what he or she thinks of us also. Also if I do not think my opponent is not putting me on an exact hand then it also could come down to "It is not what you have but what they think you have", meaning are they easily influenced by the board texture.

First, I'd like to apologize for not providing enough details in my post; I'm relatively new to real poker strategy vs playing for fun... I never really know what to include. I'm trying my best to make that transition from beginner to "sorta knows what he's doing" I appreciate all the responses. So from the limited information I provided, the general consensus is that it's better to lead off with a raise if I don't think any villain has anything or to check if I'm in early pos to test the waters...?

I'm nowhere near good enough to correctly put people on exact hands very often, especially pre-flop. So I follow the large majority of advice I've seen by working with ranges. Another key step for me in this area was training myself to remember that different players have different ranges for the same actions.