Poker and mathematics

makisaa

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Is there any relation between poker and maths? I believe that poker is psycology game first and after this it is maths. Of course luck is necessary!
 
veronica

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Mathematics , the calculation of probabilities, is the field that defines the practice of poker..Hay more aspects that a player must master if you want to achieve excellence , but the calculation of probabilities is basic . All professional poker odds are known to perfection , and from them , develop their creativity based game
 
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fabiodona

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you need both

great players know how to play the psychologist and mathematics
 
MoeJurphy

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Both are the key the success in poker. Yes you can do well playing just maths or playing your players but to go really far you need to be good at both.
 
lonaug

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You pretty much improve your calculations along with the time playing Poker. Experience and practice end up making you a good calculator if you pay attention in the odds and everything that happens all the time on the table.
 
CincyTim83

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Math comes into play with pot odds. we can justify a lot of plays based on the amount of money you are investing in the pot.
 
rensks

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both really necessary in poker, hand in hand, reading your probabilities and your opponents are he key to achieve success, the psicological aspect i think is the harder to get, just need a lot of experience
 
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ph_il

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Math plays a huge part in poker. Math will always be a part of the game that you can fall back on if you need to because the math will never change.

Hand vs hand odds preflop will always be the same. AA is always an 80% favorite against 22-KK, no matter what. Set-mining with the proper (implied) odds is always mathematically correct vs not getting proper odds. Calculating pot odds will always be the same, as will calculating your hand odds, and the relation of pot to hand odds will always be same: If your pot odds are better than your hand odds, then is mathematically correct to call. The same for the opposite, if the pot odds are worse than your hand odds, then it's mathematically incorrect to call.

Basically, you can straight-forward, mathematical poker and still make good profit as long as all of your decisions are mathematically correct.
 
fletchdad

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Math involves one way of approaching play. Psychology is another. I see it kinda like getting healthy. You can exercise and you can have a nourishment plan. Either one will help you get more healthy - provided you have the correct plan. Both together, however, will be of greater benefit in the long run.

Example of the differences:

You are on the turn and have to call a raise, fold or re-raise.
Scenario 1- You were dealt a pair, but also have the nut FD and an OESD. You have so many outs in this situation that you can easily use math to tell you if a call is in order. BUT, a raise may be better, cause you know your opponent will react to a raise in a certain way, depending on what he holds. Your outs, and calling = a mathematical decision. You raising, a psychological decision. BUT, you raising also is math influenced, and you calling also psych influenced, as a street is still to come and more decisions to be made.

The more info you can use to make a decision, be it your odds and out, or the way you think a player will react, and best case, a combination of both, the better decisions you can make.


tl;dr

Math and reading players are both important in poker.
 
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ph_il

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I would like to add that mathematics and psychology are both important in poker, but the title of the thread is 'poker and mathematics'

For me, the mathematical part of poker was the easiest to pick-up and if you're good at that, you're pretty well off for a beginner.
 
skull89

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Think about odds, size bet, statistics...
Maths are in the essence of professional poker.
 
Dorugremon

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Is there any relation between poker and maths? I believe that poker is psycology game first and after this it is maths. Of course luck is necessary!

There's no "either psycholofy or math" involved: it's both working together.

In blackjack, there is always a precise mathematical way to play any particular hand. The dealer makes no decisions, therefore you're not trying to out-smart him. You also get to see all the cards, so you know the precise composition of the remainder of the pack.

Not so in Poker. Your opponents can do whatever they like, and you don't get to see all the cards. This adds a certain "fuzziness" to Poker math, but that's OK. If you know a play is +EV, you make it and it's not necessary to know exactly how +EV it is. It isn't always necessary to calculate anything. Flop TPTK + NFD against an aggrotard, it's obvious what to do: CRAI. He'll call with any piece of that flop. Maybe he'll even call with a bare straight draw. You're +EV all the way. Against an OMC who you know won't call without two-pair or better, then stuffing it all in is very -EV. He'll fold with nothing, and call you down when he has your TPTK beat, forcing you to draw to the flush as if that's all you had.

Secondly, psychology figures into your mathematical calculations. This comes into play when figuring such things as fold equity, or calculating the implied odds for calling with a long shot, speculative hand. If you're contemplating laying 2 : 1 in the button to rob the blinds, you need to succeed two out of three times immediately to be 0EV. If you have two nut scared nits in the blinds, you know you're immediately +EV. They will fold more than two out of three times you steal.

What if they're not? Perhaps they always defend when challenged, bit you also know that they'll five up too easily on the flop. You may not be getting immediate odds to steal, but you know you're risking more to win more OTF, so you don't need the immediate pot odds to make a steal raise the right play. How they play makes a difference on the mathematical probability that any given play will be +EV, 0EV, or -EV. You can't play --especially no, limit -- by formula. (Fixed limit is more amenable to pure play by formula, but even there it doesn't get you into the Big Leagues.)
 
fletchdad

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I would like to add that mathematics and psychology are both important in poker, but the title of the thread is 'poker and mathematics'

Yes, the title is that. But read his second sentence. The gist of OP involves both.
 
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In online poker, there is minimum of psychology. But there is statistics and data about yourself, so opponents may outplay you easier instead of playing live game I guess.
But if anyone is not sure about something in poker, the math is always a gread guideline you can follow. No math player = no brainer. That's why not anybody can be profitable because one has to have a brain for math. Imo, it's not something you can learn.
 
makisaa

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The psycology of poker

The first thing needed in poker is psycology. This means that you must have good psycology, feel ok, then you must be able to analyse the psycology of the others and `play` with it. This leads you to victories!
 
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Doh123

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You are trying too hard to get cheap posts count up.
 
ribaric

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Math is your odds and i mean you can calculate how many outs you can get....
But practice luck and watching videos and reading books are the most important
 
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cruisinman

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No way to play winning Poker without using smart Math . . .

Otherwise - just may as well play Bingo at the VFW.
 
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cruisinman

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How does one use psychology online - say in Bovada where players are anonymous?

I would like to add that mathematics and psychology are both important in poker, but the title of the thread is 'poker and mathematics'

For me, the mathematical part of poker was the easiest to pick-up and if you're good at that, you're pretty well off for a beginner.
 
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dirkf

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Poker Math Importance?

If you were to break poker talent/success into a pie chart, how big a slice would poker math be? 25%? 10%? 50%? Curious to hear your opinions.
 
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CupOfSalt

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I would say this question depends on whether you are playing live or online.

But of course, every player should have at least some foundational poker odds math under their belt.

I'd say maybe 30%
 
Dorugremon

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How does one use psychology online - say in Bovada where players are anonymous?

Pay attention. You get a line on how the opponents play: who seems strong, who are the fish, who's playing FoF -- you discover this through observation, especially seeing what they are showing down. Do they ever show a lone pair? Do they ever show unpaired, high card hands, or is it always two pair or better? Do they raise pre, only to check most flops, including dry boards? That means a likely FoF player. I've seen u-Stakes players who would be pretty formidable, but for that. They win, but would be doing better if they'd just take a shot at the dry boards.

You can also look for live tells, and they are there. If you know they're not multi-tabling, look for deviations from the normal pace with which they react to your bets. Uncharacteristic hesitation in calling can mean they're not feeling confident about their hand. Try betting at them again instead of check/folding a bust hand. Also, look for bet sizing tells. If they run off at the keyboard in the chat box, that can also give you insights into their thinking.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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I would say that math is very important. I did not take math into account much when I first started playing, but once I did I learned how often I was putting myself in negative expectation situations. Far too often to be made up by my ability to read an opponent. Especially in multiway hands.
 
victory22422

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Math is the most important thing in the poker. Thats why proplayers are really pros. And of course a lot of them know math very well.
 
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Best way to learn the math?

I am a newb looking to improve...as far as learning to calculating odds in poker quickly, are there certain videos/threads/books you guys would recommend? Thanks in advance! :)
 
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