Poker Books (Math)

#1 August 24th, 2018, 7:21 AM

Using the 4/2 rule was the best mathematical rule I had ever come across in my studies. I forget the name of the book. Just recall it having large cards on it and it taught me about SPR's and some other key poker strategy to enhance my game. After learning that I had 9 outs with a flush draw on the flop I multiplied those outs by 4 which equaled to 36 which was the percent chance of me catching my flush. Does anyone know the name of the book I'm talking about and how do you guys feel about this 4/2 rule? I know it's been around awhile but I like to teach it to up in coming players looking for a mathematical edge.

#2 August 24th, 2018, 8:18 AM

was it Cooke's rules of real poker

#3 August 24th, 2018, 9:58 AM

No it was Phil Gordon's "Little Green Book"

#4 August 24th, 2018, 11:45 AM

Welcome to our community.
Unfortunately, I did not read this book.
But this year I read a book that was very useful to me.
Title of this book: "The Mental Game of Poker" Jared Tendler.

#5 August 24th, 2018, 9:42 PM

It�s always good to know your math

#6 January 12th, 2019, 12:10 AM

Playing poker profitably implies to take right decisions EVER based on math. We have to consider probabilities, statistics and logic. The psychological part is about ourselves, trying to control our mind. Rarely we use psychological factors of villains, so if it is usefull, play supported by math.

#7 January 12th, 2019, 1:10 AM

I agree. You have to play without emotion. To not be afraid to play a particular hand.

#8 January 12th, 2019, 1:23 AM

It's social psychology.

#9 January 12th, 2019, 1:29 AM

Originally Posted by grumblbrumbl

I agree. You have to play without emotion. To not be afraid to play a particular hand.

There's no afraid when you know what to do and you know when you lost, you will get more value in the long run. When you really know about poker, it get like chess, a game of certainty.

#10 January 12th, 2019, 1:47 AM

Well Sklansky and Malmuth would be happy to hear that. I guess if you can listen to music on your headset, you might as well play a probability application while you're at the table.

#11 January 12th, 2019, 7:41 AM

There's a lot of social psychology involved as well. You must be willing to exploit bad players to increase your win-rate.

#12 January 12th, 2019, 8:44 AM

Math is the framework and part of the basic foundation we must master, but psychology, implied odds, table tendencies, your image, villain tendencies, etc also play an important role.

After all if you think you're beat on the river because of math alone....there's players out there exploiting your fear of the river in those spots.

#13 January 12th, 2019, 8:53 AM

[QUOTE=frnandoh;4898581]Playing poker profitably implies to take right decisions EVER based on math. We have to consider probabilities, statistics and logic. The psychological part is about ourselves, trying to control our mind. Rarely we use psychological factors of villains, so if it is usefull, play supported by math.

That's right, if it comes to offline poker games. But online games are designed to download more money from the players! I think that smart programmers, when developing each player�s equity, included the contents of his online wallet! I noticed many times when my bankroll is small and close to zero - �luck� leaves me, it is worth filling a bankroll (online cashier) - the best hands come and win more often! Poker Books (Math)

#14 January 12th, 2019, 11:30 AM

Yes, I agree with you that mathematics in poker decides, but poker still has tournaments and games in which luck plays the main role are tournaments in which stakes rise in a short time and you don’t focus on the game and you have to make quick decisions in such tournaments !

#15 January 12th, 2019, 11:37 AM

Online mathematics are everything as u can't see the player to get a read on his body language ect

#16 January 12th, 2019, 11:55 AM

For me it is not only mathematics, because if it was that way you can not differentiate between players, I mean there is no way that mathematics tells you how your opponent thinks, how tired he may be, his frustration , there is no way that mathematics can provide you with these data since they are not quantitative, that is why it is a combination of mathematics with psychology which should give you success in poker

#17 January 12th, 2019, 12:08 PM

Can't argue with that and if it's live poker it's so much easier to spot those very things and exploit them online however u need to spot the betting patterns ect which really is maths

#18 January 12th, 2019, 1:24 PM

Here's a funny story....
Playing free poker at a bar one day and on the bubble in this tournament I had the short stack shove into me when I'm in the big blind. The blinds were really high and her shove was about 2.2 BBs. I called dark figuring I had the right pot odds that any random hand was 35% against two big cards. We ran the board and she turned over AKo. I turned over 38o and hit the 3 on the flop to win the hand.
This started tirade #1 about how I called with 38o. Then her husband says, "No. It's worse than that. He called you dark." Tirade #2 ensues. This is all friendly banter. Through all of this complaining, the tournament director looks at them and says, "The math made him do it."
If I had known I had 38o in the hole, I never would have called.

#19 January 12th, 2019, 1:29 PM

Love this story tony and it shows that sometimes the math is correct even if the logic tells u the decision is wrong

#20 January 12th, 2019, 1:41 PM

I don't agree. Math is the foundation, and it will give you odds %'s, probabilities and statistics (pretty much the very foundation of gambling). Simply using math, you are most likely to fail more than 80% of the time. Combining Math with the rules, previous gameplay, and (social psychology if in a live game), is a different story.
The fact that poker can't be summed up to an exact "science", is one of the reasons it cannot be declared a sport (though it's about money, and we could see it one day in the olympics). You can train yourself to run faster, but you can't train yourself to see in the future and beat the odds. Your gut will always play a part, which is not a constant, but rather a variable... in a math point of view, giving you an equation/function with way to many possible results.

#21 January 12th, 2019, 1:43 PM

But similarly chess plays with stratagy rules and math as well as phycological facts that change person to person and game to game. Basic principles apply in every sport or in life be brilliant at the fundamentals and yuou will succeed

#22 January 12th, 2019, 2:12 PM

What I find most interesting is that even the aspect of the game that is generally thought to be the most subjective -- trying to read your opponent's hand -- can be reduced to math with range-based play. Of course you probably can't capture 100% of the information that's really out there, but it still does a pretty good job.

#23 January 12th, 2019, 2:54 PM

That sounds interesting to me, where can I find more about the math in detail you are talking about?

#24 January 12th, 2019, 4:09 PM

Hello if mathematics have great% when playing, but other aspects like reading your opponents play, the positions to read your opponents luck ...

#25 January 12th, 2019, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by no1knows87

I'm talking about and how do you guys feel about this 4/2 rule? I know it's been around awhile but I like to teach it to up in coming players looking for a mathematical edge.

There is no mathematical edge... equity is equity and it's not hard to calculate. You don't really need a book to understand that. Simply use any odds calculator and it will give you the percentages. What IS important, is that equity %'s, provide nothing more than an insight regarding overall chances. They DO NOT, under any circumstance, guarantee that a hand which has ex: a 78% chance of winning... will win for sure. Use them, include them in your analysis, but don't rely on them only, as a matter of strategy.

#26 January 12th, 2019, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by efranto2286

Hello if mathematics have great% when playing, but other aspects like reading your opponents play, the positions to read your opponents luck ...

I agree with you! But one more thing you should add is softwaer (online poker).

#27 January 12th, 2019, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by triplstacker

There's a lot of social psychology involved as well. You must be willing to exploit bad players to increase your win-rate.

This is especially true for tournaments. In tournaments it's already needed to get "lucky" in order to win, but it's even more important to even luck spots - even if you're ahead. It's true that math also implies the rules on bluffing, but it doesn't tell you anything about how to exploit calling stations and isolation of weaker players.

#28 January 12th, 2019, 5:59 PM

Strange question. Does anyone doubt that in poker the main thing is math and logic. For whom this post. Are there people who doubt it?
However, we must not forget that many cards have an advantage only at a distance of a large number of tournaments.

#29 January 13th, 2019, 3:53 PM

I'd like to know the name of the book, sounds good.

#30 January 20th, 2019, 7:46 AM

POKERSTARS have an online poker school... Free and they talk about the 2 4 rule or the 2 2 rule depending how you look at it apparently I skipped probably the best part of the explanation lol

Stop when the fun stops or when schools out

#31 January 31st, 2019, 8:59 PM

Well the math is: you put your opponent on a hand, calculate his odds, calculate the betsize to give him THAT bad pot odds, that he cannot make the call.... and your opponent might calculate...oh, he gave me bad pot odds, he wants me to fold, so I will call!!!
It's not ALL about the math, but math makes it exponentially more interesting Poker Books (Math)

#32 January 31st, 2019, 11:14 PM

I've never been a fan of the 4/2 rule simply because it is incorrect and doesn't give true statistics. Having always been a horse-backing person I prefer to work in odds. Everybody knows the odds on a flush dtaw on the turn with two hole cards and two flop cards all the same suit with 9 outs is 4/1 on the turn and 4/1 on the river (rounded). You say that with 9 outs you multiply this by 4 and arrive at 36 percent. Now 36 percent equates to 2.8/1. The turn and the river are mutually exclusive instances and need to be calculated individually. It is statistical nonsense to lump them together and say the odds of a flush are 36%.. Best forget about this rule.

#33 February 1st, 2019, 12:09 AM

I dont know the name off the book,but that is the way to estimate your odds for winning a hand.

#34 February 1st, 2019, 12:13 AM

Interesting stuff here. Good to learn evryday.

#35 February 1st, 2019, 1:50 AM

I've been looking for some good books to read. Thanks to those who mentioned titles.

#36 February 2nd, 2019, 1:42 AM

I'm currently in the middle of the Essential Poker Math course by Alton Hardin. I'll read the book after. I definitely have a good feel for poker math but it's good to know exactly what the numbers.

#37 February 4th, 2019, 12:30 AM

What�s the best book/source to learn the fundamental mathematic principles?

#38 September 20th, 2019, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by jrutledge

What�s the best book/source to learn the fundamental mathematic principles?

It would be a good thread.

#39 September 29th, 2019, 7:51 PM

I heard the authoritative book is supposed to be Bill Chen's The Mathematics of Poker but it's supposed to be a very dense read.

#40 September 29th, 2019, 8:02 PM

The longer I play, the more I learn something new for myself. Thank you poker! Poker Books (Math)

#41 September 29th, 2019, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by infonazar

Welcome to our community.
Unfortunately, I did not read this book.
But this year I read a book that was very useful to me.
Title of this book: "The Mental Game of Poker" Jared Tendler.

I'm reading it now. Frustrating so far, this book annoys me instead of motivation. Poker Books (Math)

That's bad.

#42 October 4th, 2019, 11:20 PM

Anyone found any good books they recomend about Poker Math? Im not good at this subject.. actually horrible!!!

#43 October 5th, 2019, 12:17 PM

Maybe this book Roy Rounder "Easy poker math"? Anyway, I thought it was very good.

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Poker Books (Math)

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