This is a discussion on Poker Books (Math) within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; Using the 4/2 rule was the best mathematical rule I had ever come across in my studies. I forget the name of the book. Just
Using the 4/2 rule was the best mathematical rule I had ever come across in my studies. I forget the name of the book. Just recall it having large cards on it and it taught me about SPR's and some other key poker strategy to enhance my game. After learning that I had 9 outs with a flush draw on the flop I multiplied those outs by 4 which equaled to 36 which was the percent chance of me catching my flush. Does anyone know the name of the book I'm talking about and how do you guys feel about this 4/2 rule? I know it's been around awhile but I like to teach it to up in coming players looking for a mathematical edge.
Playing poker profitably implies to take right decisions EVER based on math. We have to consider probabilities, statistics and logic. The psychological part is about ourselves, trying to control our mind. Rarely we use psychological factors of villains, so if it is usefull, play supported by math.
[QUOTE=frnandoh;4898581]Playing poker profitably implies to take right decisions EVER based on math. We have to consider probabilities, statistics and logic. The psychological part is about ourselves, trying to control our mind. Rarely we use psychological factors of villains, so if it is usefull, play supported by math.
That's right, if it comes to offline poker games. But online games are designed to download more money from the players! I think that smart programmers, when developing each player’s equity, included the contents of his online wallet! I noticed many times when my bankroll is small and close to zero - “luck” leaves me, it is worth filling a bankroll (online cashier) - the best hands come and win more often!
Yes, I agree with you that mathematics in poker decides, but poker still has tournaments and games in which luck plays the main role are tournaments in which stakes rise in a short time and you don’t focus on the game and you have to make quick decisions in such tournaments !
For me it is not only mathematics, because if it was that way you can not differentiate between players, I mean there is no way that mathematics tells you how your opponent thinks, how tired he may be, his frustration , there is no way that mathematics can provide you with these data since they are not quantitative, that is why it is a combination of mathematics with psychology which should give you success in poker
Here's a funny story....
Playing free poker at a bar one day and on the bubble in this tournament I had the short stack shove into me when I'm in the big blind. The blinds were really high and her shove was about 2.2 BBs. I called dark figuring I had the right pot odds that any random hand was 35% against two big cards. We ran the board and she turned over AKo. I turned over 38o and hit the 3 on the flop to win the hand.
This started tirade #1 about how I called with 38o. Then her husband says, "No. It's worse than that. He called you dark." Tirade #2 ensues. This is all friendly banter. Through all of this complaining, the tournament director looks at them and says, "The math made him do it."
If I had known I had 38o in the hole, I never would have called.
I don't agree. Math is the foundation, and it will give you odds %'s, probabilities and statistics (pretty much the very foundation of gambling). Simply using math, you are most likely to fail more than 80% of the time. Combining Math with the rules, previous gameplay, and (social psychology if in a live game), is a different story.
The fact that poker can't be summed up to an exact "science", is one of the reasons it cannot be declared a sport (though it's about money, and we could see it one day in the olympics). You can train yourself to run faster, but you can't train yourself to see in the future and beat the odds. Your gut will always play a part, which is not a constant, but rather a variable... in a math point of view, giving you an equation/function with way to many possible results.
When there is blood on the table... the sharks will come!
But similarly chess plays with stratagy rules and math as well as phycological facts that change person to person and game to game. Basic principles apply in every sport or in life be brilliant at the fundamentals and yuou will succeed
What I find most interesting is that even the aspect of the game that is generally thought to be the most subjective -- trying to read your opponent's hand -- can be reduced to math with range-based play. Of course you probably can't capture 100% of the information that's really out there, but it still does a pretty good job.
I'm talking about and how do you guys feel about this 4/2 rule? I know it's been around awhile but I like to teach it to up in coming players looking for a mathematical edge.
There is no mathematical edge... equity is equity and it's not hard to calculate. You don't really need a book to understand that. Simply use any odds calculator and it will give you the percentages. What IS important, is that equity %'s, provide nothing more than an insight regarding overall chances. They DO NOT, under any circumstance, guarantee that a hand which has ex: a 78% chance of winning... will win for sure. Use them, include them in your analysis, but don't rely on them only, as a matter of strategy.
When there is blood on the table... the sharks will come!
There's a lot of social psychology involved as well. You must be willing to exploit bad players to increase your win-rate.
This is especially true for tournaments. In tournaments it's already needed to get "lucky" in order to win, but it's even more important to even luck spots - even if you're ahead. It's true that math also implies the rules on bluffing, but it doesn't tell you anything about how to exploit calling stations and isolation of weaker players.
Strange question. Does anyone doubt that in poker the main thing is math and logic. For whom this post. Are there people who doubt it?
However, we must not forget that many cards have an advantage only at a distance of a large number of tournaments.
Well the math is: you put your opponent on a hand, calculate his odds, calculate the betsize to give him THAT bad pot odds, that he cannot make the call.... and your opponent might calculate...oh, he gave me bad pot odds, he wants me to fold, so I will call!!!
It's not ALL about the math, but math makes it exponentially more interesting
I've never been a fan of the 4/2 rule simply because it is incorrect and doesn't give true statistics. Having always been a horse-backing person I prefer to work in odds. Everybody knows the odds on a flush dtaw on the turn with two hole cards and two flop cards all the same suit with 9 outs is 4/1 on the turn and 4/1 on the river (rounded). You say that with 9 outs you multiply this by 4 and arrive at 36 percent. Now 36 percent equates to 2.8/1. The turn and the river are mutually exclusive instances and need to be calculated individually. It is statistical nonsense to lump them together and say the odds of a flush are 36%.. Best forget about this rule.