Pocket Pairs vs Suited Connectors - Why is JTs so strong?

darthdimsky

darthdimsky

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I was looking at pocket pair EV against suited connectors and was taken aback by how powerful your mid SCs were against low pocket pairs, especially how strong JTs was compared to QJs/KQs/AKs even.

Why is JTs stronger than QJs and KQs? AK I can understand because of how it limits open enders. Screenshot 1 contains raw data table for PP vs SCs (Blue highlight indicates EV below 50.50%) . Screenshot 2 is a graph of 88 and below vs SCs
 

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darthdimsky

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I think I might have stumbled on a reasonable explanation for this here
 
mtl mile end

mtl mile end

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I think I might have stumbled on a reasonable explanation for this here

Good stumbling Dims!


"Beginner Lesson 4" is one that many fail to grasp, despite having played for years and having already figured out that online poker is rigged. :stupido2:
 
darthdimsky

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TBH I was really suprised by it too. I always figured the higher suited connectors would have more EV. I also stumbled on another 2+2 thread where some suited one gappers might have more EV that some of the SCs (not sure though). I'm reading the other lessons there too and they're a really entertaining read :)
 
IcyNicy

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I think it's because a lot of cards may iprove your JT especially suited. Cards like 789 together give you a straight, and on the other end QKA give you a straight as well.
Well yes. Now I realized that I don't understand it myself) Dunno
 
mtl mile end

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TBH I was really suprised by it too. I always figured the higher suited connectors would have more EV. I also stumbled on another 2+2 thread where some suited one gappers might have more EV that some of the SCs (not sure though). I'm reading the other lessons there too and they're a really entertaining read :)

I think it's because a lot of cards may iprove your JT especially suited. Cards like 789 together give you a straight, and on the other end QKA give you a straight as well.
Well yes. Now I realized that I don't understand it myself) Dunno

I became so enamored with Beginner Lesson 4 that I ignored the primary question. Then I became enamored with the top chart.


Speaking strictly to suited connectors vs under pair, in addition to pair and flush draws, you want the straight draws to be as numerous as possible. In other words, you don't want the potential (straight) out cards to be outs that are used in villain's pair (reduces your straight outs/kills your pair draws/gets villain closer to a boat which reduces your flush hopes) and you want the most possible straight possibilities. As you have stated, AK can only get a straight from T-A. In the same way, with KQ, you've only added the 9-K possibility to what you would have had with AK (so you have 9-A possible). With QJ, you can "straight" from 8-A, but with JT you can straight from 7-A.


This applies at both ends for suited connectors vs an over pair. The farther away (lower) from the over pair that you get, the number of straight possibilities increases, until you start to hit the wheel draws. That is why, in the above chart, 56s has greater equity against AA than does JTs. I wish I had this chart ten years ago when some guys at my then card room were arguing that the best hand to have against AA was 98s. I argued (correctly) that 87s was better, and that 76s was better as well - to no avail because they had "read it somewhere". :banghead:
 
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