pocket pairs to the flop

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GummiStarZ

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I just recently started folding pocket pairs preflop. That is, when i'm out of position. I know u have a 1-7.5 chance of flopping trips, but i was wondering how profitable (or unprofitable) is it to take a pocket pair to the flop is everytime it was raised to 3x?

Thanks all!
 
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crdalchemy93

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Well, the easy answer is it depends:)

There a definitely times you want to fold low pockets out of position this is mostly when you have a medium stack and you don't have the implied odds.
Another reason may be if there are crazy players still to act who do a lot of 3 betting, however they would have to be really crazy to make it correct to fold.

If effective stacks are really deep or really shallow then you have to play the PP for their implied odds and hand strength respectfully.

Good luck
 
Sakolik029

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I will say this that even a pocket pair of aces is not always a winning case
 
Fernanda37

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Depends of your stack. If you have more then 20bbs, thats continue profitable, but depend of the situation too...
 
Odysseus101

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I'll go 3BB on low or mid pairs if I'm on or close to the button and the others have folded to that point; my odds are good and also good that I get the blinds. If someone else makes a bet of less than 3BB then I'll see it but not raise. If I have such pairs while on a blind and half the table has raised from 1BB then I know that I have little chance and will only go in on mid pairs and if it's up to 3BB. Basically, pay to see the flop if it's not going to hurt my stack.

In a huge freeroll or cheap tourney I'll be more daring. I'll go all in much more readily preflop, especially against 2 or 3 opponents. If I get lucky then I'm well on my way, and if I'm out then I've probably saved myself two hours of annoying play.
 
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marinaki85

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Imagine you have pocket sevens and you find yourself up against two cards like A-K or J-10. You're the favourite to win, but only by small margin.it s a risk.
 
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redmast

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The big influence is the value of the stack. With an average stack, I did not throw the middle pocket pair if there was no longer raise 5BB. If only a small stack allyn. With a large stack or a normal raise 3BB 4BB. I do so on the proximity of the money regardless.
 
luiaguila

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Depends but playing them is very profitable almost always the problem is when to retire and when to be aggressive because you can be playing on the flop but losing on the river or on the turn
 
fly2tsky

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33 55 is funnily monster hands though. Anw i usually play small pairs passively :'(
 
antonis32123

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This matter also bothers me. If the blinds are low I call/play almost all the small pairs , if raised a little I also call , if raised big by one I fold .
If I don't hit sth on flop I fold , I don't expect anything on the turn .
On bigger blind levels I play only big pairs if I have the chance and the higher the blinds are the higher pocket pairs and the more in position I play .
If one pocket pair is overpair , I don't trust playing it , I just check it , at least if I don't have need of more chips/blinds . If many villains have called a raise/reraise and the pot is big enough giving me the odds to play a PP sacrificing a lot of my chips , well I don't know when this is right or not exactly mathematically , so I don't do it YET , I'm still studying it .
But I must say when it comes to PP I prefer applying the 2to10 rule , at least by now I haven't faced a problem concerning playing PP , this rule is very reliable :)
 
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CallmeFloppy

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It really depends on my stack and the people playing with me. I like to see a lot of flops with pocket pairs but I try to take into consideration how often I will get raised both pre and post flop. Also like to know how my opponents react to post flop aggression
 
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GummiStarZ

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This matter also bothers me. If the blinds are low I call/play almost all the small pairs , if raised a little I also call , if raised big by one I fold .
If I don't hit sth on flop I fold , I don't expect anything on the turn .
On bigger blind levels I play only big pairs if I have the chance and the higher the blinds are the higher pocket pairs and the more in position I play .
If one pocket pair is overpair , I don't trust playing it , I just check it , at least if I don't have need of more chips/blinds . If many villains have called a raise/reraise and the pot is big enough giving me the odds to play a PP sacrificing a lot of my chips , well I don't know when this is right or not exactly mathematically , so I don't do it YET , I'm still studying it .
But I must say when it comes to PP I prefer applying the 2to10 rule , at least by now I haven't faced a problem concerning playing PP , this rule is very reliable :)

2 to 10 rule? and thanks everyone for your input. I think that if your getting 4-1 on your money its always correct to see a flop on a pocket pair. is that right? otherwise for the most part, i've found that calling a reraise out of position with a pocket pair is basically the worst situation. So, i'll usually fold or reraise when faced with a raise input please??
 
Bogdan Pyts

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Pocket couple from 22 to 66 can become very strong hands if catch a set on a flop, with them it is easy to win quite large banks. Owners of complete and long stacks because potential chances of bank it allow them dare to play especially often low pocket pairs.
It should be noted that in tournaments in most cases you will have no sufficient reasons to play all the low karmanka. Stirs most often a short effective stack. If it is less, than 20 rates which need to be made to look флоп, then this action won't be profitable at a long distance.
Small couple – a hand, rather easy for a draw, because everything depends on hit in a set on a flop. If it didn't occur, then, as a rule, to pull a set on the subsequent streets, you should pay dearly for the decision.
But having received a set, you try to collect as it is possible bigger bank. And having missed, it is necessary to leave by the cheapest method distribution – you have nothing to do more here. It is inexpedient to pay for a turn and the river even a minimum fare in 1-2 blind (but it in reality doesn't happen as rates will be much larger): your chances of collection of a set it is insignificant are small.
In spite of the fact that general poker rules don't recommend to open with small pocket couple from any line item, under certain conditions such option can be considered if you play a cache games according to unlimited Texas Holdem.
Opening from early line items often causes series of calls, especially – in offline. It to you only on a hand because in multisweats any pocket couple costs quite strong. So, by and large, you should risk and remain in distribution and whether you will win large bank or you will be dumped – already other question.
And opening from any late line item often leads to a fold of all other players and an instant prize of sweat. Basic reasons are simple: a position benefit, the shown initiative and aggression.
In case of the beginning of an action to your course, for example, in case of a raise or one-two calls of such increase equalization of the offered rate will make a sense. Try to see flop the cheapest way – as soon as you are allowed by rivals.
To apply in this situation squeeze – often not the best option. The hand is rather weak and requires strengthening, and one of your opponents can make 4-bt, and then you will need to make very tough
 
AKApokeruga

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I just recently started folding pocket pairs preflop. That is, when i'm out of position. I know u have a 1-7.5 chance of flopping trips, but i was wondering how profitable (or unprofitable) is it to take a pocket pair to the flop is everytime it was raised to 3x?

Thanks all!

Do you know the @call 20@ rule? This rule says: @If your option is to call or not after opponent raised and both of yours and opponent stack is 20 times more than raise size so you must call.@

You have about 12% chance to take you trips an flop. So if you have 20 times bigger stack you must call. Even if you will be able to play all-in after you will got your trips just 1 time of 19 so your bankroll will grow over time.
 
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dejan85

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you shouldn pocket pair is not bad ifi is not some big raise you should try to call.....
 
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Mauno

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it depends from stack and position and also against who I'm playing.
Average I will fold most of pairs. Only 10-10 and up are worth to consider.
But If I can afford to bet with small pair and it hits the flop then winning is much sweeter :)
 
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GummiStarZ

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Do you know the @call 20@ rule? This rule says: @If your option is to call or not after opponent raised and both of yours and opponent stack is 20 times more than raise size so you must call.@

You have about 12% chance to take you trips an flop. So if you have 20 times bigger stack you must call. Even if you will be able to play all-in after you will got your trips just 1 time of 19 so your bankroll will grow over time.


i did not know that rule thank you. that makes sense
 
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GummiStarZ

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Pocket couple from 22 to 66 can become very strong hands if catch a set on a flop, with them it is easy to win quite large banks. Owners of complete and long stacks because potential chances of bank it allow them dare to play especially often low pocket pairs.
It should be noted that in tournaments in most cases you will have no sufficient reasons to play all the low karmanka. Stirs most often a short effective stack. If it is less, than 20 rates which need to be made to look флоп, then this action won't be profitable at a long distance.
Small couple – a hand, rather easy for a draw, because everything depends on hit in a set on a flop. If it didn't occur, then, as a rule, to pull a set on the subsequent streets, you should pay dearly for the decision.
But having received a set, you try to collect as it is possible bigger bank. And having missed, it is necessary to leave by the cheapest method distribution – you have nothing to do more here. It is inexpedient to pay for a turn and the river even a minimum fare in 1-2 blind (but it in reality doesn't happen as rates will be much larger): your chances of collection of a set it is insignificant are small.
In spite of the fact that general poker rules don't recommend to open with small pocket couple from any line item, under certain conditions such option can be considered if you play a cache games according to unlimited Texas Holdem.
Opening from early line items often causes series of calls, especially – in offline. It to you only on a hand because in multisweats any pocket couple costs quite strong. So, by and large, you should risk and remain in distribution and whether you will win large bank or you will be dumped – already other question.
And opening from any late line item often leads to a fold of all other players and an instant prize of sweat. Basic reasons are simple: a position benefit, the shown initiative and aggression.
In case of the beginning of an action to your course, for example, in case of a raise or one-two calls of such increase equalization of the offered rate will make a sense. Try to see flop the cheapest way – as soon as you are allowed by rivals.
To apply in this situation squeeze – often not the best option. The hand is rather weak and requires strengthening, and one of your opponents can make 4-bt, and then you will need to make very tough

thank you very informative
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

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2 to 10 rule? and thanks everyone for your input. I think that if your getting 4-1 on your money its always correct to see a flop on a pocket pair. is that right? otherwise for the most part, i've found that calling a reraise out of position with a pocket pair is basically the worst situation. So, i'll usually fold or reraise when faced with a raise input please??

You can limp , that's what I do most of the time when utg and see if raised and how much and if the 2 to 10 rule and the odds then allow you to call/raise a little . Or if you're on the SB and BB just wait seeing the action and deciding in the end if you're gonna call with your pair (again accordingly to the 2 to 10 rule and the odds ) . Althought I must say I do not take into account/consideration the odds , only the rule2 to 10 , this is sth I try to change by raising the pot instead of just limping like I was doing untill now and try to improve my gameplay on this field , you're right , but not ung/EP .
 
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GummiStarZ

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You can limp , that's what I do most of the time when utg and see if raised and how much and if the 2 to 10 rule and the odds then allow you to call/raise a little . Or if you're on the SB and BB just wait seeing the action and deciding in the end if you're gonna call with your pair (again accordingly to the 2 to 10 rule and the odds ) . Althought I must say I do not take into account/consideration the odds , only the rule2 to 10 , this is sth I try to change by raising the pot instead of just limping like I was doing untill now and try to improve my gameplay on this field , you're right , but not ung/EP .

i dont know if i personally like that style of play. I think anyone with a HUD would quickly realize why your difference between your vpip and pfr are and would exploit it. also, how comfortable are you being first to act with a pair of 5s after the flop? since i purchased hm2, i realized that it honestly is about your position moreso than the cards. The grind is basically this: Stealing blinds and trying to take pots down preflop, and the big hits will come, but the majority of the time, your folding. So, what im sayiing is, I dont like playing basically any hand out of position. I have been doing this for awhile, and I may be not doing it right, but the grind is hard man. takes so much discipline and patience.
 
Roman Tsygankov

Roman Tsygankov

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I think that is a mistake, because it is really profitable to call 3-bets with pocket pair as your opponent can go all-in with QQ++(may be JJ) on the flop.
 
IntenseHeat

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I agree that flopping a set with a small pair can be very profitable especially since your hand will likely be camouflaged. Even still, I really don't like limping into pots. I'm not saying that won't ever limp. If too many players have limped in front me, then the remaining players will be getting good odds to limp in as well, unless I make a big enough raise to discourage them. Of course I may not want to do this with a small pair. In these cases I may choose to limp in, but in general, I prefer to raise. This is both to limit the number of players in the pot and thus reduce the chances of someone getting lucky with a bingo hand, and also to take control of the hand. This may give me an edge post flop, where I might take the pot down with continuation bet. Whereas, a continuation bet will have much less of a chance getting past multiple players.

As for calling another players raise, I might be willing to risk calling up to 3x, but usually not too much more than that. The other night I did call a 5x raise with pocket 4s, but only because I suspected the player of trying to make a move on my blind. He turned out to have A-K suited, but missed the flop. I however did flop a set, which gave me plenty of confidence to call his pot sized bets on the flop and turn and to bet 2/3 of the pot on the river after he checked to me. He ended up calling me and paying me off with A high.
 
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iFishForFlush

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All situation dependent, every table is different, and I strongly believe a good player adjusts to the table dynamics. There are multiple ways of playing poker in different situations to be profitable.
 
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chronical

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To wide of a question.
1. Is it Cash(is your BR big enough?) or MTT(what is your M and how many BB you have?)
2. How many ops do you play? If you are set/dro mining you have to have good odds so ~3-4 ops pref as it would give you ~1:5+ on the pot
3. What ops are you playing. Station,TAG,LAG,fish...?
The only thing that can be consistaion is position.

Well from math point of view, you have the answer in your question. If you discard all of the above reasions and points, you have 1:~7 on hiting a set so you will lose you raise/3bet ~6 times
 
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kishiru

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Im doing this same=/ Im scared of better hands / pairs in opponents hands. When im ahead i can fold these low hands but when i get strong hands with pairs i go agressive af. It depends how much chips do u have. if u have low amount of chips just try to rise, there is no clue to fold then
 
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