Plugging the drain at BB

bubbasmouse · Aug 2, 2009

I'm trying to learn to be a better Player. I just got started in online poker. I downloaded the trial version of Poker Tracker 3. It is showing i'm losing money in 3 positions with BB being the worse. I'm losing 7.5x more money at BB versus SB. I'm also losing at Position 6. Position 6 I'm losing 3x more than SB.
What can I do to plug these drains? I'm showing a slight profit but I need to plug the holes at BB and Position 6.

kidkvno1 · Aug 3, 2009

I think you will lose, in the BB, SB. I have to say, i have been losing well in the BB, SB. But your OOP, well in the BB, SB, you really can't play that many hands from them positions.
In position 6 you have a problem, if could be your calling with to many hands.
How many hands do you have in it????? If it is less then 5K, you won't get great stats.

Jurn8 · Aug 3, 2009

is this FR or 6max cus seat 6 is obvs different in both?

BelgoSuisse · Aug 3, 2009

Post a screenshot of your position stats including stakes, number of hands, bb/100, vpip and pfr if you want to received relevant feedback. Otherwise all we can say will mostly be vague and useless to you.

benevg · Aug 3, 2009

BelgoSuisse said:
Post a screenshot of your position stats including stakes, number of hands, bb/100, vpip and pfr if you want to received relevant feedback. Otherwise all we can say will mostly be vague and useless to you.

^^^ this.

however, by your numbers and even without the screenshot, it should be clear that you are calling too much from the BB. generally, being in the blinds, it is going to be hard to make money because you are playing the hand from out of position. same applies to "position 6" if that means "6 off the button".

so, after you post the screenshot above, think more about playing in position, play another several thousand hands, and come back to us with results...

santa fe slim · Aug 3, 2009

Just because of the positon post flop and the forced bet, the big blind position will be somewhat of a loser over time. Sooooo, give this a shot: Accept it and minimize the loss. Don't always try to protect the big blind, especially when you have a rotten hand. Play more aggressively when in position.

JOEBOB69 · Aug 3, 2009

belgo is prop right need more info.But off the top of my head it sounds like the middle postion your limping too much with 9 10 j 10 kj an so on out of postion getting raised an prop check folding flops.

Just sounds like it to me i could be wrong but want know with out the info.

Poker Orifice · Aug 4, 2009

What percentage of hands are you folding in BB?.... in SB??
Alot of players fall into the belief that they must defend their blinds,... meanwhile you'll be playing the rest of the hand out of position.
I'm a tourney player and on average I'm folding SB & BB to steal ~70-80%

Poker Orifice · Aug 4, 2009

^^
approx. the same amount as AJKHoosier1 (can't be too far off ideal then, lol)

kidkvno1 · Aug 5, 2009

So should you be winning in the SB, BB???? In MTTs i seam to do good in the SB. I do fold a good amount, well in the BB,SB in ring tables, -15.00 in the BB but i don't get great hands

Mase31683 · Aug 7, 2009

kidkvno1 said:
So should you be winning in the SB, BB????

No, both blinds are going to lose money.

RogueRivered · Aug 7, 2009

Don't fold the BB too much. Raise limpers. In the SB, same thing -- don't fold too much, raise limpers. Analyze your starting hands and figure out which ones you can play that will do better than -50 bbs/100 in the SB and -100 bbs/100 in the BB, since that's what you get if you fold.

kidkvno1 · Aug 7, 2009

Mase31683 said:
No, both blinds are going to lose money.

It is not that way in MTTs

RogueRivered said:
Don't fold the BB too much. Raise limpers. In the SB, same thing -- don't fold too much, raise limpers. Analyze your starting hands and figure out which ones you can play that will do better than -50 bbs/100 in the SB and -100 bbs/100 in the BB, since that's what you get if you fold.

Ok i will have to try it out. Thanks.

RogueRivered · Aug 12, 2009

kidkvno1 said:
Ok i will have to try it out. Thanks.

When I originally posted that, I was thinking that calling in the SB and/or BB was good sometimes against a raiser and a caller since you probably have odds to see a flop, and I guess that is relatively better than folding with some hands. I realize now that you probably shouldn't be calling much in that situation, even though it's better than folding. The best would be to raise! 3-betting is generally more profitable, at least that is my new theory and what everyone else says. I think I've just seen the light regarding 3-bets -- that's always been a major weakness of mine, meaning I hardly ever did it.

kidkvno1 · Aug 12, 2009

RogueRivered said:
When I originally posted that, I was thinking that calling in the SB and/or BB was good sometimes against a raiser and a caller since you probably have odds to see a flop, and I guess that is relatively better than folding with some hands. I realize now that you probably shouldn't be calling much in that situation, even though it's better than folding. The best would be to raise! 3-betting is generally more profitable, at least that is my new theory and what everyone else says. I think I've just seen the light regarding 3-bets -- that's always been a major weakness of mine, meaning I hardly ever did it.

Got it, most of the time i call, well in the BB/SB is when i am holding a great starting hand but i think i need to start 3-betting, when i have top hands.
Tho i must say i tend to mix up how i play, boy does it make them mad.

Poker Orifice · Aug 13, 2009

kidkvno1 said:
It is not that way in MTTs

How do ya figure??

Also, I'm not quite understanding the advice here about suggesting that OP be 3-betting often from blinds... why?.. so they can bloat up a pot that they are playing out of position??

kidkvno1 · Aug 13, 2009

Looking at my stats i am winning more in the BB/SB, well in MTTs, If i remember right i am +25,000, well in the SB, about +1,000 in the BB.
Odds are if i am running great, can get them to fold i will raise from the BB, SB It's a nice way to take care of the limpers. Also only do it with great hands.

SavagePenguin · Aug 13, 2009

bubbasmouse said:
I'm trying to learn to be a better Player. I just got started in online poker. I downloaded the trial version of Poker Tracker 3. It is showing i'm losing money in 3 positions with BB being the worse. I'm losing 7.5x more money at BB versus SB. I'm also losing at Position 6. Position 6 I'm losing 3x more than SB.
What can I do to plug these drains? I'm showing a slight profit but I need to plug the holes at BB and Position 6.

If you just got PokerTracker you may not have enough hands to get an accurate reading of your win/loss. I mean, get lucky and win stacks twice in the SB and maybe it'll show you profitable there?

Basically, the BB and the SB are losing positions. Pretty much everyone who plays loses money in those seats. Awhile ago at 40k hands of 6-max rings I had a slight profit, but it was an anomaly and I eventually stopped winning there (I also moved up to a level so people were better at stealing).
The reason the blinds are losing positions is because you are forced to put $ in with random cards *and* you are in the worst positions on subsequent rounds of betting.

That being said, assuming a large sample size, in ring games you should not be losing money in any seat except the blinds. You do not have to put $ into the pot from any position except the blinds, so if you are losing money from seat 6 you have a leak in your game (probably playing too loose in late position).

linjoehan · Aug 28, 2009

blinds can win if you play agresively pre-flop but in general being out position is the main factor here you are always at a disadvantage after the flop

Plugging the drain at BB

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