PLO, Tournaments and Bankroll Management

TxScorpion

TxScorpion

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Hey gang,

I've been playing NLHE ($1/$2 at the casino and micro stakes online) for about 6 months. Recently, I've been playing a few micro stakes tournaments and learning how to play PLO. In the short time that I've been playing, I've built up my bankroll enough for the minimum 25 BIs to move up in stakes.

A couple of questions here...

(1) In the micro stakes games (PLO2 and PLO5 in particular), it's really tough to learn the game when most of the folks are just on there to gamble it up. Even though my bankroll says I can move up and play comfortably, I think I need to see more hands or whatever is needed before I move up. Do I stay where I am where I'm playing against guys who are playing with any 4 cards as long as it has AAxx? Or move up to PLO10 or higher?

(2) I have also been winning a few micro stakes tournaments and I was wondering if I should move in stakes there as well? If so, how much of my bankroll should go towards tournaments and how much towards cash games?
 
BluffMeAllIn

BluffMeAllIn

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hi scorp. You could always take a shot at 10PLO, like a 5bi shot or something and see how it goes and if you get your butt handed to you then drop back to 5PLO and rebuild.

Re tournies generall 100bi min, so with a 250 br a bi of 2.5 would be an ok brm, due to mtt variance however the more the better but obviously if dealing with smaller fields which I would assume on wpn then 100 should be fine.

Also congrats on getting 1/2 way to your initial 50 - 500 challenge, keep yp the grind and you will get there.

EDIT: Also PLO tends to be a higher variance than NL, so as you move up the limits I would suggest having additional bi padded to your br before doing so. Like say before moving to 25PLO from 10PLO instead of 25bi would be better to have 30bi and remember to drop back if needed to rebuild.
 
TxScorpion

TxScorpion

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Hey bluff...I'm definitely going to take a run at 10PLO in the near future. Do you suggest that I wait until I have 30bi before I move up PLO10? Or is that future reference for when I move up to 25PLO? Either way, a 5bi shot is definitely worth it. ACR doesn't have any MTTs that I am aware of just your standard STTs, SnGs and DoNs.

Thanks about the challenge. You guys on this forum deserve ALOT of the credit for my success thus far.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Extra padding, or a nitty br some might say, never hurts IMO. The comfort of having a little extra room to take on variance for me helps to accept it easier in regards to not wanting to chase that loss.

I see know reason you can't take a shot at 10PLO as you said, perhaps if you get kicked in the nads and have to drop back then maybe you might want to rebuild to 30 bi before you attempt it again. The padding is a general future thing to give more comfort for a new level and because the competition is going to get tougher as well it may take more adjustment.

This forum is amazing, it has helped me in many ways and do hope that my contributions help others as well. Good luck grind the PLO, look forward to reading your success.
 
TxScorpion

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Yeah I definitely agree about having a nitty style when you moved up in stakes and you're slightly under rolled.
 
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tohos

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I recommend you to have at least 40BI for PLO for the stake you wish to play as it has much higher variance than NLHE and 25BI would often not be enough to tank the big swings, you could just end up going ping pong between two stakes for a long time.

MTTs I recommend the same as bluff, 100BI of your averaged BI. So if you had been playing 2.20 and 3.30 and you throw in a 8.80, ~4.86 is your avg BI.

I have been playing FR NL so far this year but recently started shifting back to PLO and turbo mtts when time permits. I feel the PLO games are pretty soft at the micros though, softer than NLHE. Be careful with PLO though, make sure you are not just on a heater and are actually beating the game. It can turn out disastrous if you overestimate your ability in a high variance game like that. Just some friendly advice from someone who almost blew his whole roll at PLO.
 
TxScorpion

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That's the thing tohos. I have been reading the forums to find the exact number of BIs I would need to even consider moving up in stakes and it changes constantly. From 25 to 30 or even 40. I agree with you and bluff about having a comfortable cushion in the event I get my head handed to me.

Please explain this statement to me. Sorry but I'm still trying to understand the jargon and math of the game as we'll.
" MTTs I recommend the same as bluff, 100BI of your averaged BI. So if you had been playing 2.20 and 3.30 and you throw in a 8.80, ~4.86 is your avg BI."

That's another thing is that I can't tell if I'm on a heater or if I'm playing sound, tactical PLO? I've been playing the recommended types of hands (Double paired and Double suited) and staying away (as much as I can) from single pairs with trash. Either way, I'm definitely digging the learning process and appreciate all help I can give and receive to forums
 
BluffMeAllIn

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hey scorp, what he means regarding average bi in his example is basically 2.2 + 3.3 + 8.8 = 14.30 spent on 3 tournies so divide by 3 for the ~4.86 is the average buyin you spend on each tourny and this can be used as implementing within a correct BRM. So basically it would allow you to play from time to time a bit large an mtt but still be within good brm rules.

One of the biggest things to remember in PLO is all 4 cards should work together, not 2 and 2 because you want to give yourself the best odds of having strong draws etc. This is where essentially wrap hands are very effective like 89TJ and such, and get those in double suited and IMO its a premo starting hand in PLO. Double suited is only really great if they are still somewhat connected accross the four but even better if for example a hand like AcKcAdTd because you now have the nut flush possibilities and also great cards for a nut straight.

Typically straights+ are standard in PLO when it comes to a showdown so even a set if there are possibilities for a straight its very likely you are beat which is why I would take a wrap over double paired anyday I think in PLO. Just my thoughts obviously, I don't play a lot of PLO but do thouroughly enjoy the game.

One thing I can gtd in Omaha is that usually the nuts can and will change on all streets, so its great to have redraws even when you flop the nuts to improve your hand. Like flop a set or straight but still have outs to catch a flush or the FH obviously.

Thinking about al of this gets me wanting to play PLO now lol.
 
TxScorpion

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Thanks for the explanation bluff! ACR doesn't have MTTs (not that I'm aware of) so I wasn't sure how to appt that information. So from the way it sounds, I can spend roughly ~4.86 on tournaments and still be within BRM requirements. Am I correct or am I missing something?

Yeah I'm definitely learning that flopping the nut straight doesn't guarantee me winning the pot! I've lost plenty of pots where I flopped the nut straight only to lose it to a FH on the river! Arrrgg!

Yeah playing PLO has taken over me playing NLHE.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Thanks for the explanation bluff! ACR doesn't have MTTs (not that I'm aware of) so I wasn't sure how to appt that information. So from the way it sounds, I can spend roughly ~4.86 on tournaments and still be within BRM requirements. Am I correct or am I missing something?

Right you can use an average buyin as within brm so you have 250 well based on a 100bi brm plan for mtt's or sng's lets say then you are rolled for 2.50 games. if you wanted to however you could always play 1.10 (or roughly whatever it would be) games and throw in a 6$ game for every 4 1.1 games you play as this would still leave your average buyin at like 2$ just as an example so still well within a proper brm.

6 + 1x4 = 10 for 5 games, so same as 5 x 2$ games.
 
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