Playing UTG/CO with 4 Players

kmixer

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Essentially UTG and the Cut off become the same position when there are only 4 players at the table so I was wondering do you lean towards the hands you would normally play under the gun or do you play the cut off hands.

For Sng Play Stacks will play a bigger role I am assuming.

Is there discussion here or is the answer just that easy, to say that these positions become one when there are only 4 people at the table.
 
jmasterrich

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The cutoff with 4 people is the button, meaning your going to have position for the whole and hand and therefore can open up your range. Depending on your image, the two players to your lefts tendencies (tight, weak, loose, 3bets a lot), you might be able to raise a lot (suited connectors, broadway cards, Ax suited, etc) to pick up the blinds or maybe you want to stay on the tighter side and let the other players knock eachother out (this is mostly true for sngs where top 3 get paid. Anyway. hope this helps a little.
 
cjatud2012

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jmasterrich said:
The cutoff with 4 people is the button
Click to expand...

No, you're one off the button when you're four-handed, i.e. the cutoff.

Otherwise, the advice is pretty sound: stick by your cutoff range rather than your UTG range when you're four handed. Table dynamics and stack sizes play a large role, too.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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it depends...if there only three paid places. I play very tight until the 4th person is going. then when it only 3 I start to play mid-draw hands. But also watch what the board is doing. I have learn that sometime the board can help you with what to play.. for ex.. I have been in some sit and go where the board starting to set up a set for people 5 hand in a roll. And sometimes at that stage I will not see a J,Q,K,A for like 20 hands. When you go to the end game with only 2 people left. I start playing anything that comes my way
 
jmasterrich

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cjatud2012 said:
No, you're one off the button when you're four-handed, i.e. the cutoff.

Otherwise, the advice is pretty sound: stick by your cutoff range rather than your UTG range when you're four handed. Table dynamics and stack sizes play a large role, too.
Click to expand...

Yeah your right. for some reason I spaced out thinking the CO was UTG+1 while I was reading this. So yeah disregard that comment, but I think the rest of it still holds true.
 
cjatud2012

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jmasterrich said:
Yeah your right. for some reason I spaced out thinking the CO was UTG+1 while I was reading this. So yeah disregard that comment, but I think the rest of it still holds true.
Click to expand...

Lol no problem. I agree with the rest of what you said. I think tightening up is wrong, as our opponents will be doing the same and we should be taking advantage. That doesn't mean we should be reckless and 4-betting ridiculously light from the CO, but we can open raise a lot, especially if the blinds are tight and moderately stacked.
 
salim271

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Dreams of Tragedy said:
it depends...if there only three paid places. I play very tight until the 4th person is going. then when it only 3 I start to play mid-draw hands. But also watch what the board is doing. I have learn that sometime the board can help you with what to play.. for ex.. I have been in some sit and go where the board starting to set up a set for people 5 hand in a roll. And sometimes at that stage I will not see a J,Q,K,A for like 20 hands. When you go to the end game with only 2 people left. I start playing anything that comes my way
Click to expand...

You shouldn't play tight when there are only four people if they're all playing tight as well... you should open up your hand range and steal the blinds that they're folding to fold into the money. Avoid short stacks and big stacks with mediocre hands and pressure the medium stacks.
 
kmixer

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Thanks for the advice guys. I am still trying to figure out though if I should be playing a CO range or an UTG range. Seems like it would lean more towards CO if you think of every hand as if everyone folded to you.
 
slycbnew

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The reason we have a tighter range utg than in co is because of the number people left to act in the hand, esp that will have position on us postflop. If we're four handed, only btn will have position on us postflop, and only btn, sb, and bb are left to act - exactly the same circumstances as if we were in co on a full table.

So, play your co range from utg 4handed - you're really in co, not utg.
 
Double-A

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kmixer said:
Is there discussion here or is the answer just that easy, to say that these positions become one when there are only 4 people at the table.
Click to expand...

I think there is plenty room for discussion here.

When the game becomes short handed, I think we should stop looking at position as UTG, HJ, CO, etc... Look at it as first to act in a four handed game.

For instance, you don't want to be "adjusting" your FR UTG range for four handed play. Your range should be heavily weighted towards other factors such as: blinds, stacks, and other players.

Your "1st to act" range might be huge if everyone else has clammed up and might be tighter if every raise is met by a shove.
 
kmixer

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Thanks. This helps and makes most sense to me so far.

slycbnew said:
The reason we have a tighter range utg than in co is because of the number people left to act in the hand, esp that will have position on us postflop. If we're four handed, only btn will have position on us postflop, and only btn, sb, and bb are left to act - exactly the same circumstances as if we were in co on a full table.

So, play your co range from utg 4handed - you're really in co, not utg.
Click to expand...
 
Rldetheflop

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cjatud2012 said:
Lol no problem. I agree with the rest of what you said. I think tightening up is wrong, as our opponents will be doing the same and we should be taking advantage. That doesn't mean we should be reckless and 4-betting ridiculously light from the CO, but we can open raise a lot, especially if the blinds are tight and moderately stacked.
Click to expand...

loosening up on the bubble is essential however I hear all the time that its because the other players will be tightening up. I have found this not to be the case.

by the time you get to the bubble the players left usually all have pretty sound SNG strategy working so everyone is loosening up not getting tighter.

Kinda reminds me one time when I busted out with Q 10 to K 10.....I asked the guy "how can you call with King high!!"

His reply: "cause I knew you would jam with Queen high"
 
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