Playing small pocket pairs

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Reprise

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How does everyone play small pocket pairs? To provide context I play live 1/2NL.

I like to limp with small pocket pairs looking to set mine. I don't like the idea of raising because it's rare to hit a set and if I do raise I don't want to see a re-raise making it pricier to see a flop.

Now having said this, I'm noticing that the strong/profitable players raise with small pocket pairs when there is no raise in front of them. Can anyone provide any insight? I'm assuming it's to balance out their range but even so I would think limping with small pocket pairs is better in the long run. But clearly I'm missing something here... :confused:
 
akmost

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I believe you answer yourself your question haha. I have nothing more to say. You have approximately 12% to hit your set on the flop.

Try some new strategy if you see that the old one doesn't work for you. Try to balance your range as well!

If you limp and an aggressive player after you squeezes what's your play there? So try to be the aggressor and don't be always the defender. Sometimes in poker the aggressor wins more!
 
frnandoh

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:D:DI play small pairs for imlied odds or/and equity with pot odds. that gives me a calm when anyone make a raise and I have to fold it. I make sure to be making right choice:D:D
 
Dailon Arroyo Blandon

Dailon Arroyo Blandon

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There are several things that I take into account when playing small pairs ... such as the size of my stack, my position, the stack of possible villains that can get into the hand ... having analyzed these things already Mentioned would say that I would play a small pair as long as I am in the position of the button and no villain has entered the hand
 
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sauleskid

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Playing with small pairs is risky
 
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Thenightrain

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You'll hit a set 1/7 times and set over set is pretty rare so limping isn't a bad play.

I'd normally try to raise though to get marginal hands / pairs out pre-flop in case they land a monster.
 
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Thenightrain

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If you have a small pocket pair and get raided pre-flop it's normally worth calling a max 3 bet depending on position / number of players in the pot.
 
oakthyago

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Its is comum knowledge that you should not open limp pre flop its seen has a week play. If nobody opens before you, its your turn to try steal the blinds and end the hand with a raise. We are talking about cash games the comum sense tell us that a 2.5 to 3.5 bb open is enough to scare the week hands and let the Strong hands to play.

If someone open before you then the right play is to just flat and see if you hit the set, giving up to any bet after you.

Another think to consider in a first analises is your position but let have this discution in a future chat if you ask about it.
 
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This is quite hard question, the standard answer is that aggression wins you pots. In theory this is true, but in practice it’s not that simple I feel.

1. However, regardless how fishy the table is raising late position gives you fold equity both pre and flop turning somewhat break even hand to +EV side even without hitting a set by raising its post flop play-ability. As you know small pair leads AK in equity, but still AK is considered much better hand. One large reason for this is bad play-ability of small pairs.

2. Player limping pairs will result normal players to counter that strategy by raising a bit larger, for example I raise about 5x, then CB and villain limping has negative EV. (It’s true that multiple limpers protect each other though, that is why you can mostly overlimp a small pair) Limper feels underdog and his hand has no play-ability against pressure OOP or even IP! I need him to fold to CB around 40% and he will fold over 70%. Raising protects you against good players who try to isolate you very wide. If they succeed to isolate they have skill edge, positional edge and better hand play-ability making it impossible to make profit against them.

3. When normal player limps, usually a fish-nit (opposed to P-fish, normal in a sense that logic can be used to analyze his play), and then gives you action it’s at worst an over pair to the board. So it’s quite easy not to give him money when he hits the set. Had he raised pre, he will be given different range, high cards, big pairs and are just happy to donate money against set range.

I think you can limp early position in extremely passive table, probably zero ev, as is raising and folding too. Given live table's slow space I kinda understand why someone would limp to entertain himself.

This was just me thinking aloud and I don’t have really an answer to the question why limping is bad and my text was speculative at best and I don't play live. I do limp time to time, like couple of time a month, just for fun. More often for fun I open raise funny hands, that gets you in very entertaining situations.
 
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cheeeer

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Watch here. at 3:45.
But you can always play more complicated.
 
akmost

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I open raise funny hands, that gets you in very entertaining situations.

LOL I have to admit it , that was an epic quote , BTW you don't sound like a losing player , interesting post.

Good luck :)
 
GRIN281289

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I rarely play small pocket pairs.small chance to win
 
BlackJesus

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I myself do not raise with small pocket pairs, but I understand those who do that.

A small pair has chances to outflop your opponent who has high non-pair cards. Say its AK vs 22. Not only deuces have better chances till river, even more chances they have in the flop, opponent not catching a pair.
Raise-pre-flop looks far stronger than just call and to a notable bet in flop, opponent will fold, if hasnt catched anything. This way you can see better if opponent has something than simply calling with pocket pair.

Often in poker there are no right answer, just different approach to the same situation. Like I said, I do no t raise with small pairs pre-flop.
 
almaihotz

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While playing small pocket pairs can be rewarding, remember that many positive elements need to fall into place and that parlay of events is not exactly a common occurrence. Unless you have a spot on read of your table being extremely passive which will give you solid pot odds to attempt to hit your set, then folding small pocket pairs in early position must be considered. :cool:
 
masterminsk

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It doesn't matter what cards you have. It does matter what cards have your opponent to call your raises to open you
 
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C3H6S

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i prefer OR pairs 55+ without player play....and call if some players plays
 
515bastos

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You have to take the risk and pray for a three of a kind!
 
chicopaw

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myself i will limp in or call a small raise. to see the flop ,hoping to hit a set, otherwise will; fold after the flop
 
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Be very careful when playing small pairs. A lot depends upon your stack size, who is still in the pot and more importantle your position.
 
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Thanks for the feedback all. General consensus seem to favor a raise when one is not short stacked. The next time I play live, I'll give raising and c-betting a try to balance out my range as well as folding out the weaker hand holdings preflop.
 
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myuk1

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like every hand, it depends on how many people are playing. i don know the exact stat but u dont have to hit the set to have the best hand after the flop. most people are probably in the hand with high cards and sometimes a higher pocket pair. but most likely if the board is some rainbow blank board you may still have the best hand. u dont need the set. that being said i will either raise or fold a low pocket pair rather than just limping hoping for the set.
 
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skaterick

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I don't want to have Thenightrain as my coach !
 
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Augustus Ceasar

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I myself do not raise with small pocket pairs, but I understand those who do that.

A small pair has chances to outflop your opponent who has high non-pair cards. Say its AK vs 22. Not only deuces have better chances till river, even more chances they have in the flop, opponent not catching a pair.
Raise-pre-flop looks far stronger than just call and to a notable bet in flop, opponent will fold, if hasnt catched anything. This way you can see better if opponent has something than simply calling with pocket pair.

Often in poker there are no right answer, just different approach to the same situation. Like I said, I do no t raise with small pairs pre-flop.

Hello. What to do, then, if there is one All-In maniac among other players? All strategies are worth nothing in that case?
For examle, you have 99 on the button pre-flop(not so small pair, medium reither) and you raise 4BB, and there is one idiot with 72o( but you don't know that) on BB raises All-In after you. What to do in such unfortunately pretty often cases in MTTs?

Taking this into consideration, I believe that the tight play is the solution. The call is the best solution for me, except those situations when I am on BB position and there weree no raises before me.

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.
 
dominiq

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Hello. What to do, then, if there is one All-In maniac among other players? All strategies are worth nothing in that case?
All-in maniacs 'life' is always very short. Just wait a few hands and someone will eliminate him or if you hit a strong hand, try to do it yourself. ;)
 
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Augustus Ceasar

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All-in maniacs 'life' is always very short. Just wait a few hands and someone will eliminate him or if you hit a strong hand, try to do it yourself. ;)

Hello Dominiq,

It is true. But in my short practice I saw when such a maniac made a really huge stack with pure luck. We started at 1.5 at the very beginning of a tournament, and at the bubble his stack raised up to 100K, while mine was around 10K with tight-aggressive strategy :) Whe we were at the same table, he got luck for 5 times subsequently.

What to think about all poker books in that case? :)

Pardon me for my mistakes, I am from Ukraine.
 
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