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Playing the Small Blind (Day 19 Course Discussion) |
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Playing the Small Blind (Day 19 Course Discussion)
I was so excited to see this Playing the Small Blind lesson! It is such a tough position to play from.
If you have not yet read Day 19 and watched the video for Day 19 - take a few minutes now to do that and then come back here to discuss it: Playing the Small Blind I have probably been folding too wide from the small blind. I love it when both Collin and Katie are in the videos - they are great together! Let's talk about playing the small blind and ask Katie and Collin some questions about it.
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Playing Aggressively in the Small Blind | 8 | December 1st, 2019 9:06 PM | Learning Poker |
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A very clear presentation where some of the guidance provided can be tested very quickly.
In the Poker Stars $2.75 games, if I have the smallest stack and in the small blind, should I play differently if the prize is $5.50 or if the prize is a $109 ticket? Of the three opportunities I had I only won once..and they were not easy games.
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#3
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Thanks Collin/Katie.
The SB can be tricky, and you have done a good job clarifying some of the idiosyncrasies of SB play. I do have a question that probably should have been asked earlier in the course, but now seems a good a time as any other. I am getting a little confused about what you consider "showdown value" and there appears to be some inconsistancy around applying the term. I will try to be clear here, and maybe you can provide some clarification that will help me (and others i hope).
I hope this was clear and made sense. Thanks.
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In a limped blind-vs-blind pot, both players check down to the river. Final board is: QQ 22 3. You have J6. Your jack-high has showdown value because there's a good chance it's the best hand with such weak action. Whereas in a situation where ranges are much strong, like versus a tight player who's been betting the whole way on Q-high flop, a hand like JJ might have almost no showdown value. Ask yourself: Is there a real chance that my hand will be best at showdown given the action?
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I would sugest to Katie, at eventual other following videos, to speak a little more slow, to allow better understanding for not english native listeners. Her voice is great, but she has a high intensity at her speech, I think she is hiperative and very inteligent very over the normal people that can put us in a brainstorm. Just a positive sugestion. Please desconsider if no one had the same dificulty. My question to Katie and Collin is how they act at the BB facing a SB shoving very close the MTT/SNG bubble blows. They act normal following the Nash chart or, at this point, when we are medium stack and a loosing big pot can risk our ITM - ask. Tks for the support and for this excelent free course oportunirty.
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So glad to hear that you’re enjoying the course and thanks for your suggestion which I’ll take into account on any future videos I make In situation you describe, I will follow Nash (taking ICM into account of course), but I will play explotively when the situation calls for it. If I feel the SB is shoving a lot narrower than they should, I will call a bit tighter. Very few people actually shove wider than they should in the small blind, but if I fee the player in the SB is doing this then I will also widen my calling range. Kudos to you for doing this course in a language different from your native one, that is very impressive!
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In my experience, completing the blind is proven to be a leak. Probably that is because I tend to check-call too much after flop. To be honest I would have mucked the 64o and let Babe take it, instead trying to squeeze some pork cho(i)ps from the poor creature.
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#10
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I completely understand your question as I have also struggled with it. I am beginning to think that: a) if you truly believe you have the best hand, then you bet for value (i.e., you have a set, for example). b) showdown value (I think) means that you 'probably' have the best hand, but are not sure/could be wrong, but the hand is good enough to be seen at showdown (you have K high on a board that no one has shown much interest in and feel that your opponent has probably missed the board or has a lower high card and you feel like you might have the best hand - or you have hit a low pair in similar circumstances) Of course, someone will correct me, hopefully, if I am wrong - as I am also struggling a little with this concept. Today's lesson though, was Terrific! I rarely see much about how to deal with the blinds, so I found it refreshing to have the topic explained - thank you!
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#11
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Your logic sounds spot on to me and thank you for your kind words!
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#12
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Day 19 - Playing the Small Blind
Good chapter of studies and the tips surprised me because in other faster articles from other sites it is always said that both the big blind and the small blind have to be protected and played because chips are necessarily lost and would only cost to complete them for the action.
But in practice I always thought that something was wrong because it is not only the cost of completing the chips but the "getting involved with the hand", with raises and checks, because the player will not fold any play. So, seeing that we are really at a disadvantage post-flop when we are raised early, we should play tight. When we play against bottoms and big blinds we increase the range, like as a spin and go game. Good Luck and lets movie foward
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#13
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Another worthwhile lesson learned here; playing the SB is a unique position that surely required its own day for this course.
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Finished Day #19.
It's the toughest positon to play, especially for inexperienced players. I think that in cash games the SB becomes even more tougher to play. During the past I've experimented a lot with various strategies (mostly applied to cash games) at the micros. To better understand the proper SB play and correct some mistakes, it's very important to study thouroughly you HUD, study the stats, and spend a really huge amount of time on this. Break for the weekend and back on Monday with Day #20.
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I am happy about getting some guidelines for the small blind, especially opening up my range. Normally I do not complete many blinds with low and medium connected cards. So I will be having some fun and see how that works out. There days, it is quite the norm for cut-off and high jack to steal blinds and big blind to defend with a re-raise. So very choppy waters to navigate. On thing is sure, I need to up my aggression.
Response to video question: Holding 64o, I would complete the blinds with my connected cards. (I would have folded this before reading this chapter After hitting that nice open ended straight draw, I would bet about half the pot to begin building a nice prize pool. Of course, I hope villain thinks I hit a King and just fold this. On the turn, I would go into bluff mode and bet full pot. If hero completes, I would give up on the hand if no straight hits on the river. A real tough but instructional hand!
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#17
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re: Poker & Playing the Small Blind (Day 19 Course Discussion)
SB position is limp/check/fold most of the time, but if you adjust you 3bet range againt some players, them will fold a lot. this strategy works especially against players who opens in middle position with a average stack
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In MTT i like to have a mixed strategy from the SB betweeng limping and raising,is he bb is a competed player iff it is a maniac or a tigh week player and go to the explotative side to exploid they tent to raise a lot n one case and fold a lot in the other.
In cash i dont like to have a limp strategy i just fold or raise in the SB, you dont wanth to play so manny hand week hand when there is a rake involved.
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#19
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A very useful lesson, playing with SB is very important! This is my weakness and I will try to fix it!
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#20
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How to know?
In the minute 12:23 seconds in the example of the hand Qc6s hits the flop Kc9c9s, there was a check call, 6s on the turn also check call and the river hits Qs, perfect ... but how do you know if the villain doesn't have K or 9? And if the villain bet on the Flop, bet on the Turn, on the online, what is the sign that he does not have the K or 9 and continue to pay as was given in the example?
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He could definitely have a king or a 9, but keep in mind that we don't need the best hand all the time. Sometimes he's bluffing or semi-bluffing, and this makes it profitable to call him because we're also getting good pot odds. Remember, just play the best you can against your opponents' ranges, and don't worry if sometimes they show you a stronger hand than you're expecting!
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#22
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I tend to limp in with my whole range. Has really worked well for me. It is such an important position to get right
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This is the most difficult position to play !! From the SB position, I rarely play, but it all depends on the player who is sitting behind me and how lucky I am that day
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#24
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This is a good/reasonable strategy at most stack depths. I would definitely shove for the most part under 15bb effective stack, and put in small raises sometimes against weaker or tighter opponents. But otherwise, primarily limping the small blind is solid
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#25
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How do you feel about all-in ranges from the small blind? It seems like when you're playing a short stack game you should have a particularly wide all-in range when you're under 15bb. This is particularly important in combination with the ICM section if you can apply pressure on a shorter stack close to the bubble.
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#26
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Perhaps (9 minutes of video), a 20BB bluff from 22 after limping was too risky. However, we do not have statistics on a player with BB, perhaps an aggressive re-raise pre-flop was his usual game ...
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#28
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It is from the most difficult positions to play, but this difficulty can be used to make us profit, because many strong hands can be hidden to this position!
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#29
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Hi guys. A great video and I love Katie’s imagery about how to remember which hands to play in SB. Pretty hands. Now that I can easily remember and also have the image of the hands in my head so will see how we go from here.
The hand Example of 22 in the SB coming up against 99 when all in is a really good example of how just because you do the correct move doesn’t always mean you will win, but emphasises how important the correct play is. Thanks guys. BB
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Thanks, BB and glad to hear you liked the imagery! I will think of you saying that the next time I open a pretty hand in the SB!
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#32
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What would be a range for calling if BB raises after SB limps (blind versus blind)? And alternatively for 4betting/shoving?
Re: post flop play and bluffing in favorable multiway pots - what would be a good place to bluff? Low cards rainbow flop?
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i love the SB
that's where I make the most money. I'm going to give you a trick that I use because if you've made it this far you deserve to get secrets that no one else is willing to reveal. From the Sb blind you should flat alot against LP openers and lead flop I guarantee you will be thanking me in the future now let's continue to crush
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re: Poker & Playing the Small Blind (Day 19 Course Discussion)
For example, at 25bb, I'd jam a lot as the small blind facing an aggro player in the BB raising. Hands like A2o, 33, and even JTo I'd often shove here. If stacks are deeper, then assuming you face a raise to around 3.5bb and there's an ante, then 3-bet with a fairly tight range and call down to hands like: A2o, 64s, and K4s. For post-flop, do you mean if you're the small blind and have called a big blind raise pre-flop? If so, I would usually be checking most of my range at the flop. But generally dry flops are great for bluffing post-flop if you have the betting lead.
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I'll have to check back and listen to the comment, not sure what I said now Generally I agree with Fundiver's comment. If you complete the SB and miss in a multi-way pot, I would definitely just check/fold most of the time. We're assuming no draw of course -- if you flop even a gutshot then betting becomes a lot more reasonable depending on flop and number of players. But if you completely miss the flop and it gets checked through, I would bluff the turn sometimes with a low uncoordinated flop and a blank turn. For example: Pre-Flop: Button limps, Hero completes SB, button checks. Flop: 8 5 2 Rainbow Checked Around Turn: 5 This is a decent spot to bet total air like 73 since we can easily rep a hand and it's unlikely anybody else has anything. If the pot is ~ 4bb with an ante, then a bet of 2bb has a solid risk-reward here given the added info of both opponents checking the flop.
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#38
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Hi guys, really helpful lesson given the small blind is arguably the trickiest position to play out of. One thing that wasn't mentioned was 3 betting with speculative hands such as weaker Axs and suited connectors. I've seen quite a few people advocate for playing them this way in the small blind, but after doing so in SnGs I feel like it's a bit of a chip burner especially in the mid stages with stack sizes getting to the 25-40bb range. Is it better to flat and then use the chips not used pre flop to semibluff a draw if it comes on the flop?
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#39
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Playing the Small Blind (Day 19 Course Discussion)
I totally agree about the SB being ultimately the trickiest position to play out of, and that’s why I generally dislike 3-betting suited connectors and weaker aces from the SB at the stack depth you describe. I think the best course is discard hands that have poor reverse implied odds based on the action (weaker aces as a common example) as well as hands that don’t have good enough implied odds (such as weaker suited connectors with an effective stack of around 30 bbs). Of course when we get under the bb range that you brought up of 25-40bbs we’ll have quite a lot of profitable 3-bet shove spots versus late position opens; including some of the hands that we should simply fold to an open at a deeper stack depth. ![]()
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#40
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La verdad es una información excelente, espero algún día mejorar estos conocimientos y gracias por su publicación, es de gran valor [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)][COLOR=var(--link-color)][/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)][COLOR=var(--link-color)][/COLOR][/COLOR] [/COLOR]
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#41
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#42
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The small blind is a very difficult position to play, so I should try to avoid playing too many hands while in this position. Stakes from this position will often cause me more problems than profit, so I will try not to do this if I don't have a hand with good potential.
The small blind is the worst position to be in, so I shouldn't expect much from my hand, as all of our opponents will always have the advantage of the position over me. I try not to feel tied to the pot just because half of the big blind is already in the pot. I will save money on the distance if you fold marginal hands more often instead of calling them. And Yes you have a funny laugh Life is a game , play beautiful
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#43
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I almost always fold the small blind, unless they are good cards, this chapter makes me think about it.
I will try to play the sb more often
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The more I play, more I accept the power of limping in the right spot, and Katie and Collin just gave an excellent example of strong plays you can do by limping.
Thank you for this course CC!
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#45
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#46
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if it is folded to you in the small blind, and you have a healthy stack....and the bb isnt a maniac...you should generally raise wide.
any suited connectors...anf connectors over 78...any ace...any sooted 2 gappers over 58...K7+...Q8+...any 2 broadway cards of course... its a great spot to balance your ranges too...make unusual plays. if it is bet you you in the sb...thats a different ball game...pot odds...implied odds...how many in the multi way pot..does the button bet into you every time..?? suited connectors and small pocket pairs should not be over valued,,,set mining can be cool...depending on the expense... suited connectors play best in late positions...certainly not the sb.
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#47
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#48
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I agree that you should play a wide range in the small blind in unraised pots, but consider limping a lot of these hands instead of raising unless the big blind is tight-passive. When there's a previous raise, you're right that it's very different and you should tighten up quite a bit relative to the unraised situation. For example, if the button raises and you have 65s, I would usually just be folding. But if it were folded to us, we would almost always play that hand. If you want to look at any specific small blind hands/situations, feel free to post them here.
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#49
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specific hands / situations...?? i think sb play generally isn't so much about specific hands...rather...situations...player behaviour. One's own holding ( any two) isn't as important as how you think your opponent will (generally) react to your own action according to their previous behaviour patterns. sure...an open from early position has to be treated very differently to a lead out bet from the button. How often does the button bet when the action is folded to them? What is their fold to a 3-bet frequency?? I play 100/200 and 200/400 nlhe...both 9 and 6 handed... unless there is a maniac at the table...rare...very often at 6 handed, the button gets a free shot at the blinds. Not so often obviously in 9 handed. Often 6 handed, it is the general 'mood' of the table for the button to bet at the blinds. A 3-bet will quite often scare off the bb, and the button will fold their junk. Sometimes it doesnt work all the time of course..lol. It boils down to presumed fold percentages...and of course one's own table image...which one has carefully created over the course of time...both at the present table, and in the past...especially if one is playing regs. Mixing one's own behaviour / actions / range is of course wise...be unpredictable.
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#50
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playing just sb vs bb is a different ball game. with a speculative holding, i agree of course...its good to limp sometimes...get a reaction from the bb...cheaply...and react accordingly, according to both the bb's style, AND one's own holding. how the bb reacts to one's limp will also give range info as to how to play post flop, and maximise one's chances of outplaying the bb o.o.p. if one doesn't hit the flop.
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Thread | Replies | Last Post | Forum | |
Playing Aggressively in the Small Blind | 8 | December 1st, 2019 9:06 PM | Learning Poker |