Overvaluing AK

Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
Do you play AK the same way in a cash game like you would do in a tournament?

For an example lets say you 3bet a villain with AK. And he 4bet shoves.
What would your action be in this scenario? Lets assume that both have similar stack sizes and he has decent stats

And what if you are the original raiser and a villain 3 bets you? would you call or 4 bet or 4 bet shove?

In a tournament it's a likely call for me but in a cash game I feel AK is really overvalued. Specially since we are very deep. I've lost many buyins by shoving AK. I usually run in t AA.

But that being said there's a likeliness you're running in to AK,AQ as well. Since many people shove those hands at the tournaments, they do in cash games as well.
 
P

pietpikel

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Total posts
156
Chips
0
Do you play AK the same way in a cash game like you would do in a tournament?

For an example lets say you 3bet a villain with AK. And he 4bet shoves.
What would your action be in this scenario? Lets assume that both have similar stack sizes and he has decent stats

And what if you are the original raiser and a villain 3 bets you? would you call or 4 bet or 4 bet shove?

In a tournament it's a likely call for me but in a cash game I feel AK is really overvalued. Specially since we are very deep. I've lost many buyins by shoving AK. I usually run in t AA.

But that being said there's a likeliness you're running in to AK,AQ as well. Since many people shove those hands at the tournaments, they do in cash games as well.
AK in cash is a tricky hand, especially when the stacks are deep. I think it is fine heads up, but multiway, deep stack it gives you problems. Even if you slam the flop, top pair top kicker, are you NOT going to feel good against heavy action post flop.

In cash you have to bet size it to reduce the field to 1 or 2 callers. I think the trick is to expand your range slightly, and bet the same preflop with AK as you would with 88. The preflop bet has to mix/disguise your range and limit the field. If it can't achieve that , then it is not worth it. It may take some experimentation to get the right number of callers.
 
milka1605

milka1605

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Total posts
2,183
Awards
2
Chips
104
I play AK on cash games as well as in tournaments. But with AQ is already more cautious. I know one thing, that on the cache games the harder you play the better result. But I especially do not like cash games and rarely play there.
 
Masi2197

Masi2197

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Total posts
340
Chips
0
Almost always handsome regardless of the number or number of chips on the table
 
W

wsopbound4sure

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Total posts
3
Chips
0
Ace King

Ace king is just ace king I think im folding there but thats just me.
 
C

C3H6S

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Total posts
326
Chips
0
i play ak in a two form in cash and tounament but slowly precautions....hard play because other limpers pay everything
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
Its all about stack sizes and who your opponent is.

People get amazed at casino when i jam 99 ... its not amazing its just u see a spot to make money and opponents make mistakes.

The more you see things the wider your able to play
 
GrouxLive

GrouxLive

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Total posts
89
Chips
0
I play AK is it should be played, but I think it is an extremely overvalued hand. Mostly what it is good for is having a better kicker if you pair either the A or the K. Sure, you have the straight draw, but you have much better chances at hitting up and down straight draws with mid-connectors.

I bet aggressive with it, but it is easily one of my least profitable "strong" hole card hands.
 
Diegol

Diegol

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Total posts
487
Chips
0
Well i don't playing the hand in the same way in a tournament that i play it in a cash game for some factors, i always play 6max cash and almost allways 9handed tournaments also the cash you are simply too deep to get all in but in those spots i like to call with this hand,but i try to avoid this situations by flat calling a 3bet
 
Dorugremon

Dorugremon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Total posts
456
Awards
1
Chips
19
Do you play AK the same way in a cash game like you would do in a tournament?

Like everything else in Poker, it depends, it depends, it depends.

"For an example lets say you 3bet a villain with AK. And he 4bet shoves. What would your action be in this scenario? Lets assume that both have similar stack sizes and he has decent stat"

What do I know about this vill and how he plays right now? Against some vills, I drop 'em like they were on fire. Of course, against this opponent, I wouldn't 3! in the first place. Against others vills, I insta-call. It's all very situation dependent. Against a run-of-the-mill rec-fish or an unknown, my inclination is to give them credit rather than cash. Fold and move on. If they successfully bluff, good for them! What is a player who can't be bluffed called again?

"And what if you are the original raiser and a villain 3 bets you? would you call or 4 bet or 4 bet shove?"

What do I know about this player? What is his 3-bet range like? Can he 3! with less than (A,K)? Can he call a 4! with less?

"...I feel AK is really overvalued. Specially since we are very deep. I've lost many buyins by shoving AK. I usually run in t AA".

Rec-fish tend to over value top pairs. Who knows why? Is this a hold-over from FLHE where TPTK is almost always a through ticket to the river? The big difference is that you lose just a few bets at FLHE, not your entire stack. Is it because Mr. Nit has finally picked up a playable hand and can't let it go?

Over valuing single pair hands is a big mistake when stacks are deep. If your opponent seems determined to not co-operate in playing a small pot, then it's time to let it go. If he wants to play for stacks, he probably has TPTK beat.

Not too long ago, I raise with (A,K) pick up a limper ahead and we go to the flop. Flop comes king-high and dry. Action goes check, bet, call / check, bet, call / check, check. He wins with bottom two. That guy actually cussed me out in chat for ruining his planned CRAI. Of course, had the hands been reversed, he would be the one whining about his "bad luck" when he got stacked.

You shouldn't be losing "many buy-ins" with (A,K). While it's nice to see that Big Slick when the cards are dealt, it's still a drawing proposition. If you stuff it in pre and get called by pocket deuces, you're an equity underdog.

Before acting, ask yourself: "Why am I considering jamming this hand?" Is it for value: do you believe that a hand you dominate is likely to call? If so, then take that almost coin flip chance and value own him. How many players are there who would do that? At small stakes where you will find mostly rec-fish, it's hard to find that player.

Are you jamming to steal the dead money? If so, ask yourself if a smaller bet will get that job done. Why risk an entire stack in a situation where someone may botch the plan with an unexpected overcall with a better hand? If you get 4-bet jammed, you can fold and you still have a stack.

What you don't want is to be all: "Big Slick! Yeay! I'm all-in!" Know why you're doing what you're doing. Reacting just because you picked up a pretty hand is a sure ticket to Tap City.
 
terryk

terryk

TheCanuckwithalltheluck
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Total posts
7,053
Awards
10
Chips
1
If your scared to play AK,,,at any time,hang em up and take up darts. :deal:
 
AlayneBarros

AlayneBarros

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 28, 2017
Total posts
123
Chips
0
I already play AK very cautiously, I see the reaction of the opponent and I evaluate the flop also, in case the flop comes very wet I raise if he covers call doubles, more if he pushes all in I evaluate if it is worth, that if the opponent Has almost the same amount as me. If I have less than half I push all in.
 
J

Jerry Kierl

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 25, 2017
Total posts
29
Chips
0
I play AK differently in a freeroll tourney than I do in a buyin or cash game. You have to value bet the AK in either games, but I am prepared to fold in the buyin or cash to a reraise or allin.
 
JoseFerreras

JoseFerreras

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Total posts
185
Chips
0
I like almost think that AK is overrated. However the pros play AK a lot more aggressive because the only hand that beats AK is AA and KK otherwise you are flipping, so I tend to do the same.
 
paulinhlt

paulinhlt

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Total posts
290
Chips
0
Never open 3bet with AK. Because if the opponent makes 4bet, u need fold.
Now, if you open with a raise and take 3BET from the opponent, you can quietly call or even try 4 / 5BET knowing that if he pushes all in, it will be difficult for you to call.
 
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Total posts
1,334
Awards
1
Chips
3
Never open 3bet with AK. Because if the opponent makes 4bet, u need fold.
Now, if you open with a raise and take 3BET from the opponent, you can quietly call or even try 4 / 5BET knowing that if he pushes all in, it will be difficult for you to call.

that is terrible advice, you should be happy to stack off against most opponents preflop with AK in cash games espeially as you move up , late tournament AK is a shove and early tournaments or facing a nit in cash games is potentially a place to take it slower.
 
R

Rational Madman

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Total posts
2,478
Chips
0
I play it a lot stronger in a CG than a tournament. In tournament, you are only getting called by either a pure idiot fish or someone with a pocket pair that can easily slice you if they hit 3-kind or you miss.
 
R

Rational Madman

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Total posts
2,478
Chips
0
You don't need to fold to a 4-bet in a Cg at all. They can be easily outdrawn at the flop itself.
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
I think the greatest struggle I face is, playing AK out of position. Especially in BB or SB. If we completely miss the flop and still make a continuation bet and the opponent calls, it's very hard to realize if he's floating or did hit the flop.

Playing against a calling station as well as a good player this is a very bad situation IMO
 
R

Rational Madman

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Total posts
2,478
Chips
0
I think the greatest struggle I face is, playing AK out of position. Especially in BB or SB. If we completely miss the flop and still make a continuation bet and the opponent calls, it's very hard to realize if he's floating or did hit the flop.

Playing against a calling station as well as a good player this is a very bad situation IMO
It's totally fine to play AK from even SB but NEVER raise the flop there. Willingly fold if both the A and K missed because you never know if they are hitting 2-pair when and if an A or K shows on the turn or river.

Edit: Only exception is if the A or K has 3 flop cards on same suit or if AK suited has flush draw via 2 flop cards.
 
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Total posts
1,334
Awards
1
Chips
3
It's totally fine to play AK from even SB but NEVER raise the flop there. Willingly fold if both the A and K missed because you never know if they are hitting 2-pair when and if an A or K shows on the turn or river.

Edit: Only exception is if the A or K has 3 flop cards on same suit or if AK suited has flush draw via 2 flop cards.

This is terrible advice from someone who plays like a fish. this is a quote of his from another thread
I limp with all kinds of hands, I like to see the strength of other's hands first, for me preflop action is a weakness and a leak in gameplay, I basically NEVER raise preflop UNLESS I am in dealer sb or bb and less than 4 others are in the hand.

In his reply he is only playing his cards , showing no consideration for opponents ranges and how those ranges interact with the flop.
 
R

Rational Madman

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Total posts
2,478
Chips
0
This is terrible advice from someone who plays like a fish. this is a quote of his from another thread


In his reply he is only playing his cards , showing no consideration for opponents ranges and how those ranges interact with the flop.
I rarely raise but with AK I do. The reason is that the flop alone can trap opponents for you.
 
R

Rational Madman

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Total posts
2,478
Chips
0
This is terrible advice from someone who plays like a fish. this is a quote of his from another thread


In his reply he is only playing his cards , showing no consideration for opponents ranges and how those ranges interact with the flop.
I am the type of player you can't read until it's too late and I enjoy being it.
 
vitorbonatto

vitorbonatto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Total posts
139
Chips
0
if you have something like 15bb or less i like to 4-bet-shove if you are the original raiser... otherwise i'd go all in depending on the stack of the villain
 
vitorbonatto

vitorbonatto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Total posts
139
Chips
0
I think the greatest struggle I face is, playing AK out of position. Especially in BB or SB. If we completely miss the flop and still make a continuation bet and the opponent calls, it's very hard to realize if he's floating or did hit the flop.

Playing against a calling station as well as a good player this is a very bad situation IMO


i hate this situation as well lol... if you check on the turn he'll probably make a huge bet (3/4, 1/2) and you have to fold
 
Top