Overbets? When where and why?

teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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Hey CCers,

The heck is up with over bets? No one has even said anything about them during my poker education, but it seems like the unspoken rule is never bet more than pot.

Why do I feel this way? In a game, if someone bets over pot on any street, it feels super aggressive... other than an all-in, I hardly see it. Do these types of bets serve a strategic function only applicable to higher levels of play? I think I've seen some over bets during Poker TV shows.

It seems like basic betting follows a formula: 1/2 to full pot on flop, 1/2 pot on turn, 1/2 pot on river. Some checking behind and whatever if people don't have too good of a hand... and again, other than shoving, I hardly see people bet over pot on any street. I also play on microstakes, so people's play is either very ordered and formulaic or entirely insane/nonsensical.

What gives? Am I wrong to feel dirty when I think about betting more than pot? It's just the way I was raised. LOL.

I'm looking for specific reasons why/why not to. Math ppl please come out of your caves now. Will take other explanations/thoughts, ofc.:D
 
Martinez

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You shouldn't feel dirty over betting the pot. Sometimes I think it is a good policy if you are in a pot holding the nutts after the flop especially if there is a flush or possible straght on the table.
By over betting the pot you make it slightly more difficult for a player with either of those 2 possibilities.
It won't stop a determind player, but it will make them think twice before calling, especially if a dud comes on the turn.
 
Ronaldadio

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You will bet more than pot for a few reasons...

You don't want a call (ideally)
You want it to look over aggressive (holding a monster)
You want to thin out the field (To get heads up)

BUT, all of this is dependent on lots of things.

If u r playing micro stakes and u are in late position in the early stages of a MTT/ SNG, if you pot raise to say 80 chips when the blinds are 20/10 (Starting chips 1500) This will be seen as good value to most of the table. So betting say 7 big blinds 140 chips, is not a bad thing.

It has very little to do with maths btw :)
 
rwdeets23

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except for early on in an mtt like the begging 2 levels. the only time I do it is when I try to play my hand like a bluff, I like to show about50% of my bluffs at least at micro stakes, and play made hands the same way . seems to help get a caller later on when blinds are high with TP weak kicker.
 
rwdeets23

rwdeets23

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Hey CCers,

The heck is up with over bets? No one has even said anything about them during my poker education, but it seems like the unspoken rule is never bet more than pot.

Why do I feel this way? In a game, if someone bets over pot on any street, it feels super aggressive... other than an all-in, I hardly see it. Do these types of bets serve a strategic function only applicable to higher levels of play? I think I've seen some over bets during Poker TV shows.

It seems like basic betting follows a formula: 1/2 to full pot on flop, 1/2 pot on turn, 1/2 pot on river. Some checking behind and whatever if people don't have too good of a hand... and again, other than shoving, I hardly see people bet over pot on any street. I also play on microstakes, so people's play is either very ordered and formulaic or entirely insane/nonsensical.

What gives? Am I wrong to feel dirty when I think about betting more than pot? It's just the way I was raised. LOL.

I'm looking for specific reasons why/why not to. Math ppl please come out of your caves now. Will take other explanations/thoughts, ofc.:D

but to your question on the math to over bet the pot I don't think there is any reason to. b/c depending on the pot size your only going to get called by a hand that's really strong (thinking about the math that is) so if your holding that strong hand y make it nearly impossible for your opponent to call. but at micro stakes i'd say its pretty close to 10% that think that way and even then that 10% probally thinks every one else at the table is bad and doesn't take math of the game to an extreme. but in low/ micro/ free roll mtts you see it all the time like first hand a guy utg shoves 1500 at 10/20 just to get 3 callers and turn over 10 Q...:confused:
 
Himanshu

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If you and your opponents have over 100 BB then a 2/3 of the pot bet on turn and 2/3 bet on the river will not maximize your profit on premium pre flop hands and post flop nuts so you over bet to get all money in by the river. Sometimes over bet means a bluff when someone don't want the hand to continue over all its effective strategy to look aggressive and get paid out when you make your hands.
You can also make experience players play out of their element which makes them tilted.
Master of over bet is Viktor 'Isildur1' Blom you should check out his videos to see how is does it lol its really thrilling
 
duggs

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Overbet a balanced range any time opponents range is capped
 
skiptomyloot

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Don't make your style seem like its aggressive to any experienced player period. If you can Induce a weak player to call and be on tilt. or maybe someone whos a fish. Then yeh, you can play aggressive passive, it aint gonna matter. It will matter when it happens to you and your opponent over bets, that way its easier to pinpoint his strategy and how he plays hands. If your playing cash, and he easily puts in money, and you see the hand. You can easily break down what line of action he did, why he did it, and try to get him to do that again or do it back against them. I think it counters out the idea of them knowing but they will still call anyways because to some people the truth matters more than not seeing what could be a lie. Overbetting has to be balance like duggs said,... The reason people do it on the r iver, is because it not only disguises a made hand but also if the opponent folds, then he still wont know your line of play,and if he does call an overbet all in and you got the nuts,hes gonna lose. If he calls an overbet that you bluff, then you can take note what hes willing to call down with something as small as a pair or 2 pair. then from there you can outplay them with hands that can beat a strong pair, or bluff out their medium pair. etc.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

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Thanks for the replys everyone, sorry for not checking back on the thread.

duggs yea, I had to look up what a capped range meant, but that is a good take... I'll have tot hink about it more lol

By math I wasn't really just talking about river overbets and all that...

If you and your opponents have over 100 BB then a 2/3 of the pot bet on turn and 2/3 bet on the river will not maximize your profit on premium pre flop hands and post flop nuts so you over bet to get all money in by the river. Sometimes over bet means a bluff when someone don't want the hand to continue over all its effective strategy to look aggressive and get paid out when you make your hands.
You can also make experience players play out of their element which makes them tilted.
Master of over bet is Viktor 'Isildur1' Blom you should check out his videos to see how is does it lol its really thrilling

In this situation overtbetting pot on the flop would be good... but I'm guessing that overbets are designed to look like bluffs and get value out of suspicion. Otherwise, if you had a good hand and you wanted a big pot, you'd hope your opponent has the 2nd best hand and go for a check raise... it seems like a more efficient/sure fire way of building a pot than an over bet
 
Himanshu

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Thanks for the replys everyone, sorry for not checking back on the thread.

duggs yea, I had to look up what a capped range meant, but that is a good take... I'll have tot hink about it more lol

By math I wasn't really just talking about river overbets and all that...



In this situation overtbetting pot on the flop would be good... but I'm guessing that overbets are designed to look like bluffs and get value out of suspicion. Otherwise, if you had a good hand and you wanted a big pot, you'd hope your opponent has the 2nd best hand and go for a check raise... it seems like a more efficient/sure fire way of building a pot than an over bet

I think check raise or over bet you can do anything when you are sure you have the best hand suppose you check raise anyone and he moves all in on you then you might be thinking hmm do i have the best hand ?
I play in micro stakes where check raise don't work much most people just check behind when someone is on a big draw its good to charge high to them because at micro stakes people don't fold their draws to any over bet or a check raise but i do not advice any of it just slandered 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot bet depending on how strong your hand is.
 
T

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Overbet for max value against spewers, and to bluff nits off strong hands.
 
JPoling

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Really depends on the situation. Like i can think of a few overbets i would do on a flop but it would mainly be for protection and hoping if they call on their draw they miss it. The thing is when are you thinking is good time to overbet? Cause if youre thinking like when you flop top pair or two pair i would say that is way wrong time to do it. Now lets say i flop a set but there is a flush draw as well, or even a straight draw or both. Or another example i could see maybe where i would want to overbet for protection would be flopping a straight lets say board is 3 cards in order we have top pair of straight and flush draw on board, or even no flush draw. These are times i usually see people overbet, which I am sure I probably do as well if I notice others do. I still dont think good idea though to overbet, all we really are doing is getting hands that are drawing out to beat us to call but the turn can change a lot of things as well after this original overbet on flop which we also have to take into consideration. Ok we overbet flop. What do we do on turn? What if turn misses? What if it completes a draw?
 
rdm4k

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I consider the overbet as an interesting move but honestly i still do not have it implemented into.my arsenal.
I use to reserve it for players which I have info about that may call BUT in general I feel to be wasting an opportunity to get value or, in case of a bluff, i feel, an overbet would much more likely be face up vs (thinking) Villain.
Ie: spot we have the nutz vs Villain calling station or vs villain who's playing the board (lets say he got 2nd nut flush) makes sense to be overbetted on the river. I dont see gain in ovberbetting flop and turn coz we usually drive Villain out of the pot (especially if we are never using this betting pattern).
It is definitely a balance issue and then I guess we are not going to have enough spots to make it happen.

@duggs: nice one man, very synthetic and well expressed.
 
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