Originally Posted by rigor mortis
I recently spent some time searching sites for a definitive answer to what is the highest number of outs possible in Hold'em. The answers I found were eye opening, ranging from 22 to an unbelievable 28. There was some imaginative counting, a lot of double counting, and a few not including the suited 2 in their calculations. One managed to get six community cards available.
The definition of outs 'are the unseen cards that will improve or complete your hand to make it the WINNING hand'.
We are talking winning hands in this calculation, not chopped.
Anyway I may not be the sharpest tool in the box, but here's my input.
Give Rank Badyin say 2 of clubs 2 of spades.
My hole cards are K of hearts, J of hearts (hey I'm the good guy)
Flop goes down Q of hearts, 10 of hearts, 7 of clubs (as it would).
9 flush draws (He makes a set with 2H, loses to my flush, same
with 7H with two pairs)
3 low straight draws.
3 high straight draws.
3 Kings in the other suits.
3 Jacks in the other suits.
Total = 21.
Queens or Tens turning up are as much use as an ash-tray on a motorbike, and no help to my hand
Now if anybody can increase beyond 21, or show my flawed thinking, I'll be happy to finally know the number.
Any Q, 10, or 7 on the turn with give you additional outs as you can draw to a better 2 pair.
Example: Qh10h7c10s means you can draw to:
-K or J
-Any Q or 7 gives you a better 2 pair.
Lets say river is Qh10h7c10s7d. You now have 101077K > 101077Q which gives you the win.
So, if the board pairs on the turn, you have an additional 6 outs.
BTW, this is all preflop, right? That's the only way I can see 22 continuing on that flop.
If it's not AIPF, then you have a ton more outs than you think in terms of fold equity. You have 45 outs that'll miss 22 and make it hard to continue in the hand. We have to consider that any card that is higher than 22 is a scare card and you easily represent a stronger hand that'll be hard for a player with 22 to call down with.
I know this is theory, but it's something to consider.