Opinion On Freerolls For Less Experienced Players ?

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PerformLAB

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I used to play live only, and have been doing so for about 7-8 years, without really falling into the negative $'s.

I have started playing online about 1yr ago, I started with a few small deposits on pokerstars, and eventually ended up with a grand total of 829$ lost ( despite winning 581$ from tournaments )

I consider myself a better player than what I had been doing online, hence, I started going down in buy-ins.

What I am wanting to ask really, would you guys recommend me to stick to freerolls until I get more of a feel of online poker ? Or should I head to some x$ buy-ins to avoid "learning" wrong because of all the "bad" players that play in them ?

So far, my best results were : ( From one extreme to the other )

1st out of 3300 in a 100K Privilege Freeroll ( 1000$ prize pool )
6th out of 66 in a 55$ buy-in 2.5K Gtd ( 3300$ prize pool )

however, at the buy-ins I usually play live ( 5$ to 15$ ) I can not seem to consistently rank in the top 2-3% where the good money is.

Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
fubarcdn

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I am impressed I have only made the final table on the Privledge freeroll once in the 10 years since I have been playing. How much did you cash for for coming in first?
When did you accomplish this? I haven't seen a field under 5,000 for at least five years.
 
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PerformLAB

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I am impressed I have only made the final table on the Privledge freeroll once in the 10 years since I have been playing. How much did you cash for for coming in first?
When did you accomplish this? I haven't seen a field under 5,000 for at least five years.

I cashed 157$ for first, It was on July 11th 2013 Pokerstars Tournament ID : 809496747 BronzeStar 20 FPP NL Hold'em [Turbo, $1,000 Prize Pool]

Here is the sharkscope link to the specific tournament : http://www.sharkscope.com/#Find-Tournament//networks/PokerStars/tournaments/809496747

Might it be the times you play it at that makes it have more than 5K players ?
 
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RamdeeBen

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For the small amounts you can buy into cash tournaments, from as little as 10cent I'd just play real money ones if you want to get a feel for them.

Freerolls are a huge waste of time, the return is so irrelevant and you will learn more from playing real money games.


To be honest though, if I was you..and I always recommend this for people wanting to improve and build their bankrolls. Playing 180man/90man and 45man SnG's on pokerstars. You can play as little as from 10c and build up a roll quite easily. Like, I started at 10c 350man turbos and moved to the 25c 45man and 90mans a little later. After a month or so was playing micro/low limit SnG's and MTT's and after a year had won $20k never playing higher than $11 games. It's so easy to build your roll in these games this is the advice I'd give even newer players who are completely new to the game because the fields are REALLY soft. Like I say, it's pointless imo playing free rolls when you can just deposit $10 and never have to deposit again if you use correct BR management and I'm assuming you can beat the games it's so much easier to build a roll up from that amount instead of playing for pennies in 5k+ fields.

If however you can't beat the games, then simply don't play and just study until you can beat the games - I'd just avoid free rolls at all costs unless they are private free rolls which have less runners and the payouts aren't to bad.
 
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shawkid

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In my opinion freerolls are a great way to build a bankroll, but there is no way to learn anything from them. The style of people's play totally changes. I'd say step it down to micro for a while.
 
Himanshu

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freeroll you can build some cash but if you want to learn poker sit and go tournament is the best way or if you feel yourself good you can play cash games too
 
Martinez

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Smaller sites such as ACR and Black Chip run small freerolls on demand with 10 places paid. Usually fields of up to 450-500 players.
Oly $10 in prize money, but not too difficult to make the final tables there.
They are a slow way to build up BR but at the same time, with the smaller fields more chance to get in the money.
Freerolls on Full Tilt and poker stars give tickets away for larger tourneys and have bigger fields. I find them good practice for learning patience and control. More difficult to win, but also more rewarding if you do.
 
Debi

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Freerolls are only a waste of time as far as learning to play poker - but they are awesome for building bankrolls so use them for that. Especially private ones with smaller fields -we have some great ones here.

As far as learning play real money -- but just the very small stakes until you can starting winning money.
 
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PerformLAB

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Thank you for your answers guys, I am sorry about the confusion, I had the wrong tournament name !

I will more than likely follow your advices, stick to anything under 1$ buy-in, while still playing freerolls, to try and get my BR up and up. I will drop a small deposit in again, and go from there.

Thanks.
 
micalupagoo

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gl LAB
online is def. a different game, and harder,
so many more reg. players who play so much more online than you ever could live
when I started online, I was just like you, deposit after deposit- with some nice wins, but losing in the long run
then I stuck with freerolls and worked up a balance on all the dozen+ sites I played on
CC has helped immensely, teaching me many many things about the game I never realized (and to this day still does)
big one being bankroll management..have 50-100buyins for whatever level you're playing at ($55 games, tho nice to win can cost you a lot fast)
the variance of the game (no matter how good you are) can put you on a downswing and cripple a roll fast (unless you use proper BRM)

Rams post above is good advise, stick to small buyin games, smaller fields (SnGs) and get in some volumn to see how you are doing over a larger sample size
welcome to the forum and gl
 
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PerformLAB

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Thanks for the reply micalupagoo, what would you consider a larger sample ? So far, my count is of about 600 games, however, I have been jumping from .10$ MTT's to 55$ Mtt's, which is obviously not going to give me a good idea if I am improving or not...

I will try the 50-100 buy-ins in my account idea, start with 100$, and not move up from the 1$ buy-ins until it is up to 200$, where I will start going into the 2$ buy-ins.
 
TeUnit

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maybe watch some videos, read some forums, study your post game play etc.

gl
 
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PerformLAB

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maybe watch some videos, read some forums, study your post game play etc.

gl

I did find myself a collection of about 50 adobe poker strategy and such books, which I have read a few of already, but ALL of them only deal with live poker, as far as online goes, the amount of hands you play is simply incredible !

Would you have any suggestions for videos that are worth watching ? Possibly some youtube channels or whatnot ? And for reading forums, I try and do it quite often, but I will need to do that a lot more as well.
 
punctual

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Freerolls are only a waste of time as far as learning to play poker - but they are awesome for building bankrolls so use them for that.

I couldn't disagree more. While freerolls may start out very loose they very much approximate real money play at the final table level or even as the field diminishes.

If you make it deep in a freeroll there is a lot you can learn from playing at that level. Many sites have freeroll leaderboards and you will notice many of the same names dominate the top 10 time and time again: this is no coincidence. It does take skill to consistently beat these games.

I've played in two $215 buy-in tourneys on Carbon and to be honest they played JUST LIKE freerolls. lol. I was surprised! People were not very conservative with their chipstacks. This could be due to the fact that Rebuys and Addons were permitted but that would beg the question: who is throwing upwards of $1000 at a single tournament?

In any case, I wish you much luck in your quest for poker proficiency. I'd stick primarily to freerolls and if you want to deposit every few months go ahead. This is what I have been doing for about 11 months now. Doing this I have been net positive to break even (probably a few hundred dollars in the green after I subtract my deposits from my cashout).

When I decided to take this poker journey almost a year ago I vowed I would not become a degenerate gambler and so I make sure that there is a significant amount of time between deposits and since it is only my first year I have been pretty cheap with the deposits (i think i deposited twice, once was $50 the other $100....or something like that..i don't even remember actually). In the coming year I will deposit more most likely as long as I see progress in my freeroll play; after all, if I can not beat the freerolls, what would make me think I can beat the real money games?

Throwing money at a losing strategy won't magically turn it into a winning one. And if you have a winning strategy it can be tweaked to win freerolls or real-money games: just ask Chris Ferguson who turned $0 into $10,000 playing freerolls: http://pokerworks.com/poker-strateg...n-turns-0-into-10-000-on-full-tilt-poker.html

And if you doubt that there are any poker professionals who came up by starting with freerolls you'd be wrong. One of the best professional poker players in the world, Annette Obrestad started out playing freerolls, then progressed to SnG's and from there to MTT's: you can read about it here: http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-player_annette-obrestad

Jason Somerville, another up-and-comer in the poker world who some are ordaining as the "New Negreanu"also played freerolls primarily before he made the transition to real money games. Read about him here: http://www.pokerpages.com/players/poker-biography/jason-somerville.htm

These are just a few pros who have started their poker journeys via freerolls; I am sure there are many others
 
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Freerolls are excellent practice but they have one big drawback: They tend to be huge and take forever to play. :sleep:

I like the recommendation to play in the multi-table SNGs with a reasonable buy in.

You might also want to consider playing in the MTT qualifiers for the EPT or WPT which are cheap to play at the lower level and would allow you to qualify into the EPT & WPT very cheaply ... to play live with some of the best poker players in the world. I do it and it does get easier over time. I can guarantee that your poker will take a quantum leap after your first few WPT events :icon_sunn
 
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Freerolls would be a massive waste of time if you are learning to play poker, in my opinion. You're going to think poker is nothing but bingo. :p

Definitely play cash games, you most likely will lose a few deposits but the experience you gain from the losses will build up. :)
 
estefanetti

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Plays goods hand and respect the positionw
 
rifflemao

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What I am wanting to ask really, would you guys recommend me to stick to freerolls until I get more of a feel of online poker ? Or should I head to some x$ buy-ins to avoid "learning" wrong because of all the "bad" players that play in them ?

I went on an initial downswing online too from horrible bankroll management. Here's what I do to stay in the positive:

-Make any new deposit final. Yes, really.
-Follow strict bankroll management.
-Play freerolls and money tournaments.

I tend to play a money tournament alongside a freeroll to have a chance at more than pocket change.

If you can't trust yourself to stop the busto\redposit cycle, then I would stick to freerolls. But imo it's a lot easier to build up a roll by having a reasonable initial deposit.

I still make plenty of mistakes in freerolls too so I analyze those hand histories just like real money ones.
 
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brokenlung911

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there's a reason their illegal in the US can you say rigged, they don't want to pay the government's price to run their rigged sites here, you see government will let them rip us off they just have to pay the price
 
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PerformLAB

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Thank you for the answers, I guess I will go with freeroll's, and low stakes with small to medium fields.

I think from reading the comments, that is where I will gain the most experience, as well as not risking a lot.
 
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It took me a while to even cash in a freeroll, but I'm cashing in the top 10% of them consistently now, so I must have learned something.

If anything, it's good for learning which hands to play and how best to play them at different stack sizes. A lot of the players are pretty tight with marginal hands before and after the flop, so it's also good practice for value betting unknowns when you hit a monster.
 
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PerformLAB

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Well, I started playing on 888 2 days ago, and I must say, I am quite pleased with the results.

After 3 tournaments played I ended up like this :

Min. Cash in a 1000$ 24-7 Freeroll
2nd out of 6 in a private 10$ Freeroll
3rd out of 100 in a 1$ Buy-In canada Special

So without any deposits, I have 6$ Tournament tickets, and 17.60$ Cash.

I am quite happy with the results, and will stick to Freerolls and 1$ buy-in's for a while to see where I can bring this.
 
madsquirrel

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I can agree freerolls are a waste of time trying to learn anything. You have to donk your way through a lot of them just to get down to about 20 people then you might get some decent play. I feel online tourneys are different from live.. online the 2/5/11 dollar tournaments are not too too bad , but still its just a fish game out here playing online compared to live, but every where you go you will always have the number 1 DONK at your table!!
 
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PerformLAB

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I can agree freerolls are a waste of time trying to learn anything. You have to donk your way through a lot of them just to get down to about 20 people then you might get some decent play. I feel online tourneys are different from live.. online the 2/5/11 dollar tournaments are not too too bad , but still its just a fish game out here playing online compared to live, but every where you go you will always have the number 1 DONK at your table!!

So far, what I think I can learn from freerolls has nothing to do with the cards, and a lot to do with learning how to "read" and take notes on players.

Most of the time you will end up knocked out by a hand that should have never been in the pot, BUT, I find there is still a few things to learn from them ( As well as getting some money in my account without ever depositing. )

I believe that there are still some players in there ( Myself I would like to think ) That treat freerolls as if there was some of my own money involved. I also think that in the later stages, there are some decent, and above average players that are still in there.
 
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