Opening Bet Size?

On a 1/2 no limit table. My opening raise is always 3x the bb unless its a loose table then i bump it up to 4x. How much should you come in for a raise if you have one limper behind you? or 2 limpers?

Add 1 BB per limper to your opening raise size.

slycbnew said:

Add 1 BB per limper to your opening raise size.

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so according to you he should raise 5xBB?

I don't think there is one perfect or even 'standard' answer. Regardless of the stakes, table action should always be positional, situational and (imo) unpredictable.

Why would I want to establish a predictable pattern? Comes down also to playing the players, not the cards or a set of 'standards'.

Yes, 3x or 4x BB +1 BB for every limper is pretty standard. So for 2 limpers, 5x or 6x is pretty standard.

nevadanick said:

I don't think there is one perfect or even 'standard' answer. Regardless of the stakes, table action should always be positional, situational and (imo) unpredictable.

Why would I want to establish a predictable pattern? Comes down also to playing the players, not the cards or a set of 'standards'.

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Agreed, you definitely need to tailor your play to table conditions. But I do think that adding 1BB per limper is considered standard.

Players who haven't seen this before won't recognize the pattern as predictable - to them, it'll look like you're changing your raise sizing for no reason whatsoever, which is kind of cool .

If you really want in the hand, your standard raise is correct. Also adding the 1 BB per limper is pretty standard. Many just dont seem to understand this. Any players left to act need to pay to play the hand. you dont want to give them a cheap price to outdraw you.

what people say here is generally believed to be the best option. and perhaps, until a certain level of play, this is the option that would be easiest to use. i should admit i am mostly using this (3BB + 1 for each limper) for my own raises when i play.

however, here is what Sklansky and Miller have to say about sizing your preflop raises:

Lots of no limit teachers give a rather peculiar piece of advice. They recommend that you always make the same size raises, no matter what hand you hold. Whether you have
K♥ K♠
or
8♠ 7♠
raise the same amount every time.
They may tell you to alter your raise size based on your position. Or to alter it based on the number of limpers. But never to alter it based on what's in your hand.
Their rationale is that you can betray information about the quality of your holding by raising different amounts. So, to keep your opponents guessing, always raise the same amount.
This advice strikes us like cutting off your leg to cure your athlete's foot. Sure, you don't want to give away extra information through your raise sizes. And sure, some players do manage to do just that. But, as we saw in the last chapter, you can raise preflop for a variety of reasons, and some of those reasons prefer differently-sized raises. If you artificially limit your options to avoid giving away information, you soften up your entire preflop strategy.

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(the emphasis above is mine) so - if you are certain you will not be giving away your hand strength, perhaps use a different strategy, but until then, perhaps sticking to uniform raises would be better.

Miller et. al. also suggest different raise sizes in different situations in Professional No Limit Hold Em based on stack sizes. The more advanced you get, you'll probably want to vary your opening raise sizing for different reasons.

Personally, I don't use the same open raise sizing in all situations - mostly based on my stealing frequency, position, and my read on what Villain's reaction will be to different bet sizes. I very specifically do not vary my raise sizing based on the strength of my hand, I think it's too transparent and exploitable. I generally, though, do use the +1 BB per limper no matter what I'm doing, unless I'm flatting behind someone for a specific reason. But there is no single "correct" set of standards to apply as nevadanick points out above.

For someone just starting to explore this, though, imo sticking to a relatively rigid structure (i.e., use 4xBB +1BB per limper or whatever) is probably a good idea until they get a chance to work through the logic. OP is varying his open raise sizing based on the looseness of the table, which I think is a very good idea.

Harrington advocated that with him and a strong hand for cont bets after the flop, he would go 80/20, making it random by using his watch and using one if the hand fell in a certain region. This keeps it random to the casual observer/player. Could similarly apply before the flop.

Yeah, I normally do 3X BB plus 1BB for every limper ahead of me, and this has been working well for me lately

well this is a very vague question but normally in these games the limpers usually call the raise....so the better ur hand the more i would raise....usually i would bet just to take charge in a pot and then try to outplay the others

I'm a small ball player, so I bet 2x in early position hoping to get a raise so I can reraise, 2.5x in middle position and 3x in late position to put pressure on the blinds, pretty simple approach and you bet the same 2/3 of pot whether you hit or miss and you take a lot of pots right there with a variety of hands.

i usually +1BB +3or4BB, if there's all ready a raise, or a re-raise prior, i might pot raise or raise a weird amount. i noticed on bodog you can bet partial chips. so if the BB is 100, and there's a couple limpers, i might bet, 499.69...i don't know, it amuses me at least. one time a player folded and asked how i bet 50thousand something chips and i only had 4000...so it does, somehow, invoke panic

depends on what kind of hand u have

sasquatch01 said:

depends on what kind of hand u have

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You really don't want to change your betsizing based on hand strength against thinking players, which you will see at 200nl. Doing this telgraphs what kind of hand you have to the rest of the table.

I use x4 bb and one more for every limper

slycbnew said:

You really don't want to change your betsizing based on hand strength against thinking players, which you will see at 200nl. Doing this telgraphs what kind of hand you have to the rest of the table.

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well isnt really postion, on wha bet size you really want to do in any other situation

marktungib said:

well isnt really postion, on wha bet size you really want to do in any other situation

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Actually, position is the biggest factor in my own strategy. Let's see - I steal more frequently from the BTN and SB, and my range gets stronger in MP and EP. Regs know I steal frequently from the BTN and SB, so they're more likely to 3bet me or call when I open from those positions. Since I'm more likely to "lose" the bet I'm opening with, I open smaller in these positions than I do from MP and EP.

It's important, though, that I don't change the size of my BTN open raise based on the strength of my hand. That way, when I open from there, they can't really be sure whether I'm opening 76s or AA - obviously I'm delighted to get 3bet when I'm holding AA and less happy when I'm holding 76s.

I also look at who hasn't acted yet when determining my open raise size. Someone who calls alot when I open raise, and then folds to a flop cbet, deserves a bigger open raise - I'll get more money from them over the long run. Someone who's really tight and doesn't call much deserves a smaller open raise, since there's little risk they're going to play back at me.

There are some very good discussions of this on this forum - unfortunately, I don't remember exactly where, maybe someone could suggest? I think this was fp, chuckts, belgo, or zach, don't remember exactly?