This is a discussion on Ok math wizards I have a question about Odds and Pot Odds PLEASE HELP!! within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; Hello my name is Alex and I'm a beginner at poker but I study and play this game alot. hopefully one day to be a 


#1




Ok math wizards I have a question about Odds and Pot Odds PLEASE HELP!!
Hello my name is Alex and I'm a beginner at poker but I study and play this game alot. hopefully one day to be a professional poker player. My question is in the rule 4 and 2 which I'm pretty sure you guys are familiar with you take the outs times 4 and that will give you the percent chance of improvement on the turn lets say a flush would have 9 outs 9 times 4 is 36 you have a 36% chance on the turn but how would you get the Odds from that. you can divide 9 to both sides that will give you 4;1 odds but that would make no sense because if with, lets say a pair where you have k/k and the flop has Q 3 5 and you want to know what are your odds for another Q that has 3 outs 3 times 4 is 12, 12% sounds reasonable but divide that by 3 on both sides will always give you 4;1 Odds. now I think the Rule of 4 & 2 works to give you a reasonable percent but to find the odds to compare it to your pot odds how would that help if you get the same answer no matter what. some one please help thanks in advance!!!

#4




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I have to say, you sure make it seem simple. Thanks. 
#6




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Wow, thankyou! I must be reading the wrong books, because nowhere have I seen this explained so simply or so well. Cheers for that! 
#7




The rule of 4 assumes you will see both the turn and the river. If you consider only the turn, there are 9 outs among 47 unknown cards, which is about 19%, which is roughly 2x9, not 4x9. The 4x comes about if you get to see the river, which gives you a second chance to hit if you miss the turn.
The fly in the ointment is that if you call a bet on the and miss the turn, which will be around 80% of the time, seeing the river probably won't be free. And looking at just the river, your odds are 9 of 46, still about 19%. 
#9




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So it's actually 2x to improve on each street, so 4x on the turn to improve with 2 cards to come, or 2x to improve on the river with 1 card to come. katy's approach is the proper way to calculate perstreet odds, and is the common approach espoused by most mathy poker publications. The 4x/2x rules were just quick approximations to do at the table because for most people, simple multiplication is easier/faster to do in their head than division. So with a flush draw, it's quicker for most to calculate 9*4=36% with 2 cards to come, or 9*2=18% with 1 card to come, than it is to calculate (479)/9 = 4.2:1 against, or about 19% with one card to come. As far as percentage<>ratio conversion, it's one of those things that look complicated to write out, but it comes pretty natural once you've done it a few times. For instance, assuming a x:1 ratio like 4:1, take the larger number (4), add one (4+1=5), divide it into 100 (100/5=20% = the value of the ":1" part). Then simply multiply by the original number (20*4 = 80%). So you get 4:1 = 80%/20%. If you have an odd ratio like 5:2, just reduce it to 2.5:1 first. The route from percentage to odds is even easier: if you figure you have a 36% chance of improving with 2 cards to come, then convert 36% to a fraction (a little bigger than 1/3, call it 1/2.8). Subtract 1 from the bigger number and flip them around to get 1.8:1. The important thing to remember is you don't have to be precise at the table. A close approximation is all that's needed. And using a chart like katy posted is a good shortcut for some folks starting out. But after awhile once you get used to the mental calculation, I find it quicker to do so than looking it up on a chart. 