Not looking at hole cards

gus201

gus201

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I was wanting to work on my reads and position play. would it be worth the time and effort to play with my hole cards covered to better understand players and sharpen my reads.
Any ones thought would be appreciated .

Have a good Day and Good Skill at the tables
 
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SamBush

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I think a much cheaper way (play money would be dumb) would be to but players on a range while you play and count the amount of times you were correct?

maybe rail some tables and do the same?
 
horizon12

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On the contrary a waste of time , to better understand your opponent's necessary to look on the cards and determine range hands.
 
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gqr31ff

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with nothing to play it is not reasonable and if your bluff is always the opponent players call cards are better and even more when smotresh understand the situation of the game
 
toots babos

toots babos

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there's definitely something to be learnt by covering up your hole cards and playing the game.

annette obrestad once won a 180 man playing with her hole cards covered and just picking up on her opponents weak play and attacking them so you can probably benefit from it by finding more spots to gather up chips from squeeze plays or paying more attention to players value bet sizing/bluff bet sizing and using that to your advantage
 
fletchdad

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Do you save your HH, and do you have PT or HEM? If yes, you can filter for hands that went to showdown, and replay them. On every street, put your opponent on a range, and as each street progresses, narrow that range down till showdown. You can keep track of how often his cards were in the range you gave him. It will be advantageous to be able to profile your opponent a bit. But this is an exercise you can do at your leisure.... IF you have tracking SW.

Otherwise, as mentioned above, rail games and put all players on a range. Like watch the game, keep a pen and paper or a PC notepad handy, and after 2-3 orbits, profile as many players as you can i.e. "seat 1 is a nit, seat 3 is a maniac, seat 4 and 6 look like they are playing smart, but seat 4 is much more agro and will bluff more agro, seat 6 is very TAG" or whatever. Then range each player on each street, and note your ranges, and see how often your are somewhat close. If you do something like this often enough, I believe it will be beneficial to your reading other players, and be more help than hiding your own cards.

I also wonder how many games AO played in that experiment.......
 
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Sure it's an intriguing exercise, but it's poker ivory tower IMO. Your own cards are an integral component of handreading. Not having them removes combinatorics from the whole art.

If you flop top two pair and you face aggression, or you hold TP and your kicker blocks straight draws, you can use that to infer more information about your opponent's hand to help you make the right play.
 
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GWU73

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Yes there is value. Probably more live than online.
 
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GWU73

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To clarify, I think using this exorcise after studying betting patterns and tells can be useful. I have done it in LOW buy in live tourneys with limited success. Plus it is A LOT of FUN.
 
ScooperNova

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I've heard this advice several times, but I must say I think it's dumb. Like someone else said, just watch some tables or something.
 
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freestocks

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No way.

I heard this on a poker show on TV. Pro's were talking about how someone had played a tournament online without looking at hole cards. They talked about using position.
Then one said "how would you do that? put tape on the computer screen?".
 
gus201

gus201

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The Purpose of this is to sharpen your reads , locating better spots to get pots (weaknesses) , to preflop and post flop play.

It also helps with narrowing ranges as early as possible , and then work on putting players On hands too. Doing this as early as possible to play the board against them too.

Good Skill at the table
 
Dank Hugh

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you might try covering your hole cards and looking at them only when it it time to act.
Usually playing live I don't look at hole cards when they are dealt,
I look at the other players as they are looking at their cards
 
MediaBLITZ

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If you do not understand that your position and your reads are more important than the cards you hold then perhaps there could be some value to this exercise. It makes you think on those levels by denying you the primary level of "what do I have?".
 
fletchdad

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If you do not understand that your position and your reads are more important than the cards you hold then perhaps there could be some value to this exercise. It makes you think on those levels by denying you the primary level of "what do I have?".



Very well said.
 
Colbefc

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I can't remember who it was but I seem to remember reading about a female well known poker player who did this in a tourney and still won it. Not sure if it was Annete Obrested but I am sure it happened.
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

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I can't remember who it was but I seem to remember reading about a female well known poker player who did this in a tourney and still won it. Not sure if it was Annete Obrested but I am sure it happened.

yes it was. I think the experiment was done so: She played games and hid her hole cards, they captured the desktop game, they used the one that worked, that won.

Most didnt. A lot of shit was just not used.

What I read, not what I know for a fact.

Still a great achievement.
 
XXPXXP

XXPXXP

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yes, it is possible, do that a lot often.
a lot of situation, hands does not mean much.
since hands do not need to showdown, 27o and AA is the same time, if you could represent them the same way and let your opponent to believe you.

LOL
 
Colbefc

Colbefc

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I found footage of it. Just Google it and you will see it.
 
Marcwantstowin

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yes, it is possible, do that a lot often.
a lot of situation, hands does not mean much.
since hands do not need to showdown, 27o and AA is the same time, if you could represent them the same way and let your opponent to believe you.

LOL


Hiya. I am obviously less experienced than you and was wondering do you just play the hands as if you have AA everytime or do you vary it? I would find it difficult to do but have seen Pro's doing it on a tv programme - think it was called "The Big Game" or something like? I would imagine you have to do this at live cash games - not much point on-line? Can you tell me where I can see this in action? Thanks in advance..................:D :D :D
 
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badalhoco345

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That's a curious option. If you think that is benefit to you. But personally it's a waste of time.
 
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benspocket

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I feel that not looking at cards is dumb but I do rail certain players I play against a lot to see how they play then put notes on there name but that's just me ofcouse
 
XXPXXP

XXPXXP

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Hiya. I am obviously less experienced than you and was wondering do you just play the hands as if you have AA everytime or do you vary it? I would find it difficult to do but have seen Pro's doing it on a tv programme - think it was called "The Big Game" or something like? I would imagine you have to do this at live cash games - not much point on-line? Can you tell me where I can see this in action? Thanks in advance..................:D :D :D

the answer is this
it dependents on what your opponents believe what you have?
if the opponents believe you have a strong hand, he will fold. therefore you don't need to show cards.
pros do this because, every pro know that they are play somewhat logical game, therefore, it is not hard to make some unexpected move occasionally.
like playing hands mucked. but you cannot muck hands play for long term, because, you need to get some showdown to prove you have same kinds of hand.

therefore I play the same bluff as I have value hand. = playing mucked hands if want to repsenting AA, it is AA unless it goes to showdown.

PS: live table is fairly hard to do this, online poker generally support large data collection, esp VS regs, therefore it is fairly easier to operate your table range than live.
live table with less hand history distributed, think unless you get some shared infor, it is hard to do this.
for video , I suggest you want Annette's muck hands win tournament think in Youtube.
 
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