This is a discussion on NASH and ev+ and GTO within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; My head is spinning from reading about ICM, Nash, GTO etc. I know ICM is different to NASH, and ICM works out how much each
My head is spinning from reading about ICM, Nash, GTO etc. I know ICM is different to NASH, and ICM works out how much each chip is worth in a tourney and good to use approaching the bubble and money jumps. I get that a long way from the bubble it is just better to go with ev+ plays. But is NASH the same as pure EV+ plays and is this the same as GTO plays? Thanks!!!!
Good questions. I am probably the least qualified to actually answer your question, but this is an interesting subject to me.
ICM - this is really only valuable to consider near the bubble or at the final table. You would not want to start thinking about your chip $ value too early in a tournament, it may cause you to back off of some +EV plays.
GTO - There are quite a few different perspectives of what GTO really is, so this makes my head spin also. The best perspective I have seen is that if two players play a GTO game, then neither would win or lose they would just break even, except for the variance of the cards. It is when one player plays a GTO game, and the other player makes mistakes, then the GTO player can pull ahead, not because GTO is better, but because GTO is sort of "mistake proof". It is generally agreed, that an exploitative player can make more money because they are not only winning when a player makes a mistake, but they are taking greater advantage of the players mistakes, than a GTO player would. But exploitative play itself, can be exploited as well, because it is not mistake proof.
Nash - this is more a concept than it is a playing style. Nash equilibrium applies to a play where it doesn't matter what your opponent does in a specific situation. Your longterm EV is actually 0.0EV whether your opponent calls or folds.
+EV - this is the calculated value of your options in a hand. Your EV with be different based on the type of play you choose. Raising xx% may have a +EV depending on certain equities and calling tendencies of your opponent, and raising xx% may have a -EV depending on different equities and calling assumptions of your opponent.
Sorry if this made it worse. I am sure we will get some additional feedback on this.
Well yes, now my head is spinning faster Ha Ha But you did shed some light on GTO being a playing style and Nash more of a concept. Thanks you! That makes sense. I don't understand what you said about Nash being 0 EV, if that is what you said? Why would you want to be 0 ev? Is that to do with balancing your ranges, or is that a different concept altogether?