MTT play style

A

AcesFullOfDonks

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MTT play style
I have posted this in the tournament poker forum but haven't had any replies, so I was hoping that putting it in this thread might elicit some responses.
Hey guys, it's been a while since I've posted on here and I'm looking for some advice.
Recently started going to my local casino at the weekends to play one of the weekly tournaments. I've done alright so far, out of 50ish people, placing 10th, 11th and 28th (bad beat for 28th but I'm not sour, it happens).

I'll start out by giving the tournament details for a clearer idea of what the structure is.
$25 buy in, 1 rebuy available.
Starting stack: 20,000 (500 extra for early bird).
Blind and ante levels (20 minutes per level):
25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300 (25)
200/400 (25)
300/600 (50)
500/1000 (75)
750/1500 (100)
1000/2000 (200)
1500/3000 (400)
2000/4000 (400)
2500/5000 (500)
3000/6000 (750)
4000/8000 (1000)
5000/10000 (1500)

Here's my dilemma:
These are tables of 9 people, 90% of whom are regs and play against each other all the time, be it cash or tournament.
I've observed most of these players and they all (bar a handful) play fairly loose-passive, even OOP. Obviously I've tightened up my game and advocate a TAG/NIT style of play against such a limpy table.
However, I have noticed that it's generally the same people who end up with large stacks. These are also the people playing a loose-passive game. They're playing fit/fold poker post flop when the blinds are low and antes aren't involved, hoping to hit a big hand that will get them paid. And it's working for them quite well.
I've been playing PP, SC and suited Aces (IP obviously) and premiums only. These hands don't come around often and when I'm playing them, raising in position, I'm getting folds a lot of the time. These people don't want to be involved in raised pots with anything but PP and AK-AJ. So by raising I'm only picking up the low blinds which is hardly increasing my stack. (Later in the tournament people are defending their blinds a lot more).
Of the three times I've played in this tournament I've had a relatively short stack compared to the average. Chip leaders became bullies when blinds and antes were high.
Another thing of note, these loose-passive players tightened up their ranges as soon as their stacks became somewhat larger.
I trust my post flop game just enough to widen my range, so my question is, should I be willing to play much more loosely pre flop when blinds are tiny in relation to my stack or should I just stick to what I'm doing and probably be left with a short-average sized stack at best, where blinds and antes become an issue in the later stages?

All advice is appreciated and good luck at the tables ladies and gents!
 
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chronical

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if you say the paly loose-passive, means they would limp alot + fold alot.
I see it playing 50/50% on aggro side and nit side this will give you the ability to steal + get value from strong hands beacuse they will put you on a wider range.
Loose is a wide term, maybe thous who constantly win play loose with ATo and loosing players play J9o.
Personaly I would try to steal more, if I get a fight this will mean they have a good hand, if this happens to much, they've put me on a too loose of a range And I need to tighten up... Its like swings =)
 
wildyetty

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look at smaller raise sizes and play any suited conn or better. try and catch a monster and take advantage of their ability to call
 
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AcesFullOfDonks

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look at smaller raise sizes and play any suited conn or better. try and catch a monster and take advantage of their ability to call

So, small ball poker? Thanks for the reply.
 
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AcesFullOfDonks

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if you say the paly loose-passive, means they would limp alot + fold alot.
I see it playing 50/50% on aggro side and nit side this will give you the ability to steal + get value from strong hands beacuse they will put you on a wider range.
Loose is a wide term, maybe thous who constantly win play loose with ATo and loosing players play J9o.
Personaly I would try to steal more, if I get a fight this will mean they have a good hand, if this happens to much, they've put me on a too loose of a range And I need to tighten up... Its like swings =)

What sort of hands should I be opening? I was checking my option in the blinds with hands offsuit broadway like KQo, KJo, QJo etc. Would this be a leak? I wouldn't like to raise here OOP especially if I got any callers.
 
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chronical

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1. exploit possition, yes this is ABC poker but still
2. loose-pasive means alot of suited cards, 1 gap brodways... hands that you mioght think are agood if you are a noobie player =), instead of me telling you play this card and dont play that card, I would recomend playing around in some pot odds calulator like this or if you want some soft life flopzilla, equilab... I can not know what ranges do this players have so sayng play on Ax+ or 88+ would be wrong for me to do and be a bad advice. Remember what hands youк opps played limping and more importantly rasing to create an idea of ranges they play
exmp.: I see some one playing hands that are 88+ some strong aces i see they raise little but play strong hands this = scared player My range would lossen up and I would rase more agreesively say.. any Ax and suited picture cards with 2-3 gaps, at some point my opp wil try to defend his hand, and this will give me time to tighetn up.
exmp2.: same hands (88+) but betting strong. This player will not usually defend alot with weak hands so you can steal for low input.
again I don't know the ranges of you opps so this is a generalization and nothing more.: lets asume you opp is a loose player plays ~30% of his hands so this is A5o,Q9o,J8s,K5s...+ this means you range sould, be stronger this includes mainly tight range of no-gap faces, prairs 88+ witch would be hard to get money from beacuse he is passive !BUT since your opp is passive you can widen the range a bit and take him with semi-bluffs

3. No, but you have to know what your opp is like; KQo,KJo,QJo is ~13% of hands that is tight if you opp is playing passive loose (vs hand range I gave you an exmple of)
this is why I said you should figure out you ranges vs opp ranges to know where to stand. You can not extract big pot money from passive players unless you catch them on a cooleer like set over set or street over stret. So you main income will come from many hands like you K4o beaten his K2s, so knowing his ranges of limps and (passive players escpecially) rases will give you some ground to stand on
 
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cellait

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Play calmly go with good cards and win chips and respect at the table is very important ...
 
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AcesFullOfDonks

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Well, I did alright but was eliminated in 15th. I was around 3rd/4th in chips before being eliminated.
Here's what happened. UTG min raises. UTG+1 calls. Folded to me in the SB. Look down at pocket Aces. 3bet to 4x the initial raise (with one additional caller I thought this was a suitable amount). UTG (slightly larger stack than me) shoves, UTG+1 folds. I call hoping for a HUGE double up to make me a gigantic chip leader. UTG turns over AJo.
Flop. QJQ
Turn. J
River. Blank

Lost on dominating aces.
And as I'm typing this, I've just busted from an online MTT (from 16th out of 300ish) with AA. Folded around to me, I raise light, SB folds, BB 3bet. I jam and get called by 910s.
Flop. K69
Turn. 9
River. 5

Busted.

I was actually 4th in chips around an hour earlier to this but again, I lost ANOTHER pot with AA all in PF against a short stack.
Absolutely can't believe my luck.
 
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chronical

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well you caught 2 "coolers" this will happen =(
there is a chanse that you could get away from the first hand if you have seen the flop, but maybe not?

1-2 tourneys ago, on the bubble, I'm short with AA on BU (great right?) UTG limps I shove, 'am get called buy J9o... lost to sets of J =)
 
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karl coakley

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I personally don't think the villain strategy you described is bad at all, which is why they end up with big stacks. You always read about TAG or LAG being a proper strategy, and generally it is. Aggression wins in poker, but blind aggression also gets you in trouble. Passive lets you see lots of flops early, play small pots, and build your stack. Once these people chip up, they do play proper TAG.

You just need to learn and adapt to your particular game.
 
MsNutHand

MsNutHand

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I always play in the same way (TAG) and usually doing late registration and in a short stock tight strategy in the middle of tounament and more LAG in the final stage when in the Final Table.
 
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Mauno

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I think your play is too predictable for others. If they see that You play only monsters then try to bluff sometimes.
same time.. they can make you to bieve that they play loose just to make impression.
 
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