moving from NLHE to Omaha

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Dantigua

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Hi Guys,

I played a few SnGs Omaha Hi and H/L

I placed in all three winning 2... but it seems according to some of the posts here it was probably more luck than skill.

So what would you say are the top tips when moving from HE to Omaha? I have been reading some of the posts and they seem to be more general strategy, but what would you say are most important to understand when starting out?

Also... what books are recommended for Omaha?

It seems PL is the main game... why is that?

Finally... what sites have the best games... ie most profitable?
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

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Hi Guys,

I played a few SnGs Omaha Hi and H/L

I placed in all three winning 2... but it seems according to some of the posts here it was probably more luck than skill.

So what would you say are the top tips when moving from HE to Omaha? I have been reading some of the posts and they seem to be more general strategy, but what would you say are most important to understand when starting out?

I'm figuring this out myself, been playing a month. There are several much more experienced players here than me, but fwiw, this is what I'm finding:

1. Learn hand structures and which hand structures have high equity. Get Jeff Hwang's first book on PLO (paperback, pretty inexpensive) and get a good feel for those hand structures.
2. Everyone asks a billion questions about how to play AAxx. It's a favorite preflop, but not like in NLHE - it's not an overwhelming favorite. Depending on the other two cards, though, it can be an absolute monster hand. So AA93r is a nice hand but nothing to write home about, and AAJTds is a cadillac of a hand.
3. No hand is a prohibitive favorite preflop the way that AA is in NLHE. This makes the game more of a postflop game, and your hand reading skills are critical.

4. Check out propokertools, HEM Omaha, and other resources to start looking at pot equity scenarios and get a feel for when your equity is strong enough to call bets w and when it's strong enough to raise w (and obv when it's weak enough that you should be folding).
5. Position is critical in all forms of poker, but super important in PLO. You can do things in position that are suicide out of position, much more so than in NLHE - since everyone has 4 hole cards, you really want to be last to act.

Also... what books are recommended for Omaha?

Hwang (only one I've read so far). I've seen recommendations for others, Slotboom, Ciciano, but haven't checked them out.

Note that one of the reasons PLO regs play PLO is because there are NOT a lot of good books on Omaha the way there are for NLHE - so most PLO players don't have a good foundation for their game play, making it more profitable for good Omaha players.

It seems PL is the main game... why is that?

Most potential profit. PLO is a very high variance game, but encourages/rewards risk takers and gets 100bb stacks in the middle quickly - good players are making more BB/100 than equivalent good NLHE players. Limit Omaha Hi and Limit Omaha H/L are both low variance games (kinda like Limit HE is relative to NLHE). PLO8 is in between, it doesn't encourage getting stacks in as quickly as PLO, and you always have to worry about splitting the pot or getting quartered.

Finally... what sites have the best games... ie most profitable?

I can only speak to microstakes at PS and UB. UB seems soft to me at micro, esp for PLO8 (really weak players and weak regs at $0.05/$0.10), PLO 6max is a little stronger - but they don't have a lot of tables running, and they don't have $0.02/$0.05 tables, which is what I'd rather play there. PS tables are harder at the same stakes, the regs are better, but still not good at those stakes. I just started playing $0.05/$0.10 PLO tables at PS, so far I haven't found them any harder than $0.02/$0.05 tables.

gl!
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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So what would you say are the top tips when moving from HE to Omaha? I have been reading some of the posts and they seem to be more general strategy, but what would you say are most important to understand when starting out?
4 cards that work together > 4 cards that don't. Learn to fold postflop, because they have it.

Also... what books are recommended for Omaha?
Who reads books when there's infinite information available on the internet for free? But if you insist, I hear Hwang is good.

It seems PL is the main game... why is that?
Pot limit requires a lot of skill because there's the most amount of pot management involved. Understanding how to manage the pot to get your stack in, or limit the amount that your opponent can bloat the pot so that you still have implied odds is yet another skill to learn. Pot limit also makes it more difficult to get it all in pre, and since there isn't much edge in getting all in preflop in Omaha Hi, pot limit forces the game to go postflop.

Finally... what sites have the best games... ie most profitable?
The big two (FTP & PStars). Other sites will have some game selection for omaha games at the smaller stakes, but you're lucky if you get 1 table running above $0.50/$0.25 PLO8.
 
Tygran

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Who reads books when there's infinite information available on the internet for free? But if you insist, I hear Hwang is good.



^^ A caution on Hwang...

His first book advocates an uber-nitty style that I really think is more aimed at FR than 6M and it may even be too tight for that.

His second book is much better, but also he sorta assumes you've read his first book in his second...

His first book is pretty good for getting a handle on good preflop hands and flops but just use a little caution when reading it.


C9's advice is good.

And, you will get sick of hearing this but the #1, #2, #3 and #4 and #10 things you should know about PLO can be summed up with: POSITION, POSITION, POSITION.

Seriously, position is important in hold em, but it's even more so in PLO.
 
slycbnew

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^^ A caution on Hwang...

His first book advocates an uber-nitty style that I really think is more aimed at FR than 6M and it may even be too tight for that.

I've seen this criticism of that book a lot, and read a thread at the other forum between Hwang and members of the small stakes PLO forum where they really take him to town for being nitty - this was before his second book was published.

The main criticism that was voiced involved whether or not 4 card rundowns (with or without a single gap) needed to be suited or not - not incredibly helpful to this noob (though not unhelpful either).

I don't post often there, so I'm uncomfortable asking the question there - but can you suggest other places where Hwang may be too nitty in hand selection in the first book? I know I'm too nitty in general (I'm up to about 20/9, 29/8 on btn, big improvement over the 16/2 I started at, working on not open limping, stealing from BTN, and on 3betting more), but can't figure out what I should be opening differently. I see players w 40/25, or higher, stats that appear to know what they're doing, but I'm baffled how they could be raising 25% of their hands pf when I won't voluntarily put money in the pot w more than 20% of my hands...

I have a tough time getting new books here in the Philippines, customs duties are outrageous, so I have to wait until my next trip to the US to buy his second book (probably May-ish)...

c9 and Tygran - I've found a couple of interesting websites for Omaha discussion/information, but not a lot of good strategy content collections like c9's required reading sticky, it's a bunch of unrelated threads - if you have any favs, could you pm me pls?
 
Tygran

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I don't post often there, so I'm uncomfortable asking the question there - but can you suggest other places where Hwang may be too nitty in hand selection in the first book? I know I'm too nitty in general (I'm up to about 20/9, 29/8 on btn, big improvement over the 16/2 I started at, working on not open limping, stealing from BTN, and on 3betting more), but can't figure out what I should be opening differently. I see players w 40/25, or higher, stats that appear to know what they're doing, but I'm baffled how they could be raising 25% of their hands pf when I won't voluntarily put money in the pot w more than 20% of my hands...

One funny thing about PLO is that there really isn't any "standard" way to play preflop.... it's a postflop game. Tight styles can work so can uberlaggy ones preflop... so don't put a ton of weight into your preflop stats cause there isn't an "optimal". It's ALL about your postflop play....

having said that I think 16/2 is way too limp happy...and the biggest thing about your btn play that should change is your raise % should go way up.... just limping in with marginal hands isn't going to do you any favors.

Also..PLO has far more utterly clueless players running around than the micro NLHE tables do.

Biggest thing is that if there isn't a massive disparity between your positional stats then something is wrong. ie..I don't care what your style is, if you are opening about the same UTG as you are on the btn your style is wrong.



c9 and Tygran - I've found a couple of interesting websites for Omaha discussion/information, but not a lot of good strategy content collections like c9's required reading sticky, it's a bunch of unrelated threads - if you have any favs, could you pm me pls?


Maybe C9 knows a couple good free places, I'd be interested as well... other than the obvious "other forum" as least (more PLO stuff just by virtue of being larger than here)

Other than that the most common places I go are either to a guy I've gotten some coaching from (he's a deucescracked coach) and the messages boards at the paysites (dc and stox mainly)
 
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