Medium pair against a TAG player

Hello,

I open preflop from the small blind with say suited connectors like 7 and 8 of hearts with a 3x bb raise and everyone but the tag big blind player has folded. The TAG player calls. We see the flop and I check with a pair of 7s on the board. There's also an ace so I figured he had a top pair top kicker. He bets out the pot which was 8xbb.


Normally, I’d fold here but I realized that I had a 5 outter to take his stack. So I call it. The turn brings another 7. He bets out the pot again. I call it. The river doesn’t improve either of our hands. He bets the pot placing us both all in.

Basically, what I’m asking is, is it profitable to call with the medium pair against a TAG player? It seems like the odds aren’t in your favor due to the fact it’s unlikely that you’ll hit but if you do, you’ll take their stack. If we’re stacked at around 100x BB in a cash game, it feels profitable. I’ve never played the hand like this before but I saw it done by a pretty bad player(call station) a while back which made me think… what if he had accidentally made a good play.
This was with play money but I think it'd apply elsewhere too. I'd appreciate any suggestions of how to play in the situation.

Thanks!

Hi,

I think the game dynamics change significantly with play money so be very careful comparing it to playing for real money- I used to play for play money, but have recently stopped and have noticed a dramatic improvement in my game...

With 5 outs on the flop that only gives you a 20% chance of improving your hand to a potentially winning hand (assuming you're also playing the river) - do you really want to risk your stack for that? Also, if you consider this play in the long run I don't think it's going to be profitable without some very good reads that they have nothing...

I think we'd need a lot more information on this hand to give some really good feedback (Have a look at some of the hand analysis threads, they're really good), but if a TAG is betting and he's in the BB be weary he may not have his normal TAG range...

Curious what your play is if you don't hit the turn?

Floating to the turn is fine, on a normal c-bet - but floating a pot sized bet is pretty questionable.

Oh, I woulda folded on the turn if he bet another pot size bet since the implied odds would have disappeared as well as the normal odds.

Just out of curiosity, what's a normal sized c-bet look like? There was 8x bb in the pot in the example I gave. Normally when I play and I have top pair top kicker, I'd bet the size of the pot and decide what to do if they call depending on who they are. Have I been sizing my bets wrong there too?
I recognize there's a lot more donks than decent players in play money poker who would call with any draw/pair so I think it's probably fine in play money. But what would a better size be and why?

Thanks

I can't quite get my head around the way the hand example played, did you improve to trips on the turn (1x 7 in your hand 2x on the board) or did 3 7 fall in the community cards on the turn?

If you improved to trip's I'm re-raising the turn, if 3 7's fell on the community cards what have you got in your hand?

Thanks...

Hm. What if he folds to the reraise? I was quite confident he'd fire the third barrel on the turn cuz he had repeatedly done it before against other players.

I'll probably read up on implied odds.

Good luck!

From the get go I wouldn't play a hand like that from early position. That's a hand ill raise with in position.

Whether or not the call on flop is profitable is determined by the pot odds and implied odds. Your only 20% on turn so for it to be profitable you have to be getting at least 5-1 on your money since you are going to lose four times for each win.

Betting into him is a good move cause there is always chance he folds or you can get a free card if he's still weary on turn and you check to him but could also cost you control of pot which kinda hurts your bluffing chances if you don't improve.

It's not really a profitable play. It would bette with a flush/straight draw but same concepts apply.

I agree with bluffyoubad. Playing such hands from sb can have harsh results, especially against a TAG player.

Where do i begin...

Opening this hand is super standard from the sb as you are going to make money from all the times he folds, and the times you cbet and take it down when he missed

Flop action is fine, dont know what made you think he had TPTK if he had AK he would of 3 bet preflop most likely so thats just giving him a hand for no reason. Check calling the flop is fine as you still have the best hand most of the time imo as he's going to bet a wide range when you check to him.

You may not need to hit your 7/8 to have the best hand when its a Blind vs Blind scenario either. However when he takes a line this nutted you probably do.

BluffyouBAD said:

Whether or not the call on flop is profitable is determined by the pot odds and implied odds. Your only 20% on turn so for it to be profitable you have to be getting at least 5-1 on your money since you are going to lose four times for each win.

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Its 20% overall vs TPTK but you've got to remember that its 10% on each street when you get 5:1 OTF you could be facing a bet where you are only getting 2:1 OTT then you fold and you just set money on fire

Betting into him is a good move cause there is always chance he folds or you can get a free card if he's still weary on turn and you check to him but could also cost you control of pot which kinda hurts your bluffing chances if you don't improve.

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If you bet into him how is that a free card? It cost you what you just bet? Also why do we need to bluff? We dont get enough folds BvB and we have a strongish hand in this scenario

It's not really a profitable play. It would bette with a flush/straight draw but same concepts apply.

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What makes you say this. Flush and straight draws are less likely to get paid off as people put you on them easier..