Maybe I'm Getting Too Nitty!?!?

SeaRun

SeaRun

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Before I really started studying poker strategy here, and places recommended by folks here, I was playing probably too loose and for the most part played the same way from the first hand to my last. Needless to say I've learned a lot and my game has vastly improved.

However, a few games last night got me wondering if I'm gone too tight, maybe nitty? I know I should have some hands posted for analysis, but didn't do that, shame on me.

Example, One hand I had A-Q Clubs and was on the BB. Early in the game, so not much read on the players (and no HUD) and stacks were fairly even, tall stack folded this hand. 4 calls to me and 3 folds, I raise 3 BBs, 3 calls, 1 more fold. Flop comes K-C / 2-C / 8 of red. SB checks, I bet 4 BBs, next folds, next shoves, SB calls.

I wanted to call as I figured the 2 players on AK, or maybe even a big pair, or flush draw also a possibility.

For me, any club on turn or river and I had nut-flush, so that's 9 outs, Runner 10-J and I had nut straight (with a potential for a Royal Flush), numerous other cards that would have improved my hand, but also maybe hit theirs.

So, early in a 180 Player S'nG, I folded. I know what happened in the game and will post later.

There were several places last night where I had an open-ended or a flush draw off the flop without the board paired and I didn't call, I did bet a few, but got pushed off when someone shoved.

I also find myself folding Medium As (suited or unsuited) and pairs < 6s in late position when there's no raise and a few calls.

So, 2 questions:

In the hand described above, should I have called? Would you call in the situation?

Am I getting too nitty and need to open a bit?
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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You're asking what you should have done in a situation you shouldn't be in to begin with.

4 people limp, you have AQs in the BB, and you make it 3bb. If you're going to raise, this isn't nearly enough. OOP with a good but non-premium hand, you want to either win the pot right away or get no more than one caller. 3bb is unlikely to accomplish this, witness that you went to the flop 4 ways.

As a rule of thumb, when you raise multiple limpers, make it 3bb plus 1bb per limper plus 1bb if you're likely to be OOP. Since you're not willing to do this, check your option and see the flop with your hand strength concealed. Whether checking here is the best option is certainly questionable, but it's better than what you did.

Also, on the flop, what's the reasoning behind deciding that less than 1/3 pot is the best amount to bet here into 3 opponents?
 
BearPlay

BearPlay

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Good question, SeaRun. I've been wondering the same thing lately, if I have been playing way too tightly. By choosing my spots and going only after premium hands, I am doing ok but I fear that I am missing out on some position plays that I need to work out. Subscribing here and will follow. Thanks for the post.
 
SeaRun

SeaRun

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You're asking what you should have done in a situation you shouldn't be in to begin with.

4 people limp, you have AQs in the BB, and you make it 3bb. If you're going to raise, this isn't nearly enough. OOP with a good but non-premium hand, you want to either win the pot right away or get no more than one caller. 3bb is unlikely to accomplish this, witness that you went to the flop 4 ways.

As a rule of thumb, when you raise multiple limpers, make it 3bb plus 1bb per limper plus 1bb if you're likely to be OOP. Since you're not willing to do this, check your option and see the flop with your hand strength concealed. Whether checking here is the best option is certainly questionable, but it's better than what you did. >>>>SNIP

Thanks for the advice Arjonius. Wasn't aware of that rule of thumb, but I am now!!

SNIP<<<<Also, on the flop, what's the reasoning behind deciding that less than 1/3 pot is the best amount to bet here into 3 opponents?

No excuse, but I will say a poor decision came from lack of experience & knowledge.

Again, thanks. I appreciate the detailed comment.

Jamie
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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You do not have to be a nit to turn down chasing a hand early in a tourney (sans re-buys).
But Arjonius is spot on (as usual). Your raise (and you should certainly raise there) is not enough to accomplish one of your main objectives of raising - getting into a situation where you are not facing multiple opponents with god knows what and greatly increasing the chances that someone else hits any flop you miss - and possibly hitting it hard (like they limp with Q8s and the flop is 48Q - you think you.re good with TPTK and you are crushed). You raise properly and they are usually not in the hand for the flop.
Once you get your raising technique down a little bit more you can open it up, like raising those small pairs in unraised late position as if they are AQs. Face it, if you have 55 in late position and you have 3 limpers in front you are probably ahead. When you are ahead you should always seriously consider betting (raising). But when the flop comes AKT, you probably just fell behind and it is time to seriously consider getting out of that hand. You have to ultimately be okay with making those bigger raises preflop and understand it does not always work out. It's a game of investments and, like the stock market, they do not come through for you 100% of the time.
 
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cotta777

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Pretty much spot on what the above guys have stated,

Additionally I think when ur playing a 180 their is no harm in taking risks since to win you will have to double up and get to 30k onwards adventually.

Given you are already in that situation it could pay dividends to take that risk and get ahead early and take control of your table.
but in an ideal world we want to isolate and make value with as little risk as possible
 
T

TheNoobie

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Of course I would call, you got way 2 many outs to fold it. Other than that, if it was just in the beginning it would have made much of a difference. I mean if you lost the hand you wouldnt have lost your time, but if you won it - huge advantage. You cant just get pushed away by all-in shovers. There is one in every hand. In poker you need to be willing to risk it all to make a profit, if you ask me. You will get bad beats, but you will bead bad other people too. He could have just bluffed you or something, or having a flush draw with 6-7 or something.
You usually need to avoid early fights in sng's if you want to improve your chances of winning that particular tournament, but that definitely wasnt the situation, or atleast in my eyes.
 
Carl Trooper

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Folding to his shove with AQ is pretty normal here. It is so early in the tournament and you are behind most of the time. If he has AK , that takes away 2 more of your outs.

As said early, AQ on the BB and you are raising 3bb with 3 limpers, you are asking for a call. You will have crap position and a hand as vulnerable as AQ against 3-4 opponents usually doesn't end well. I agree on betting bigger, or just checking and hoping to sneak in and crushing the flop.
 
BoddJonar

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I see nothing wrong with folding in that spot at all. Sure, you could gamble, maybe hit that flush and probably get yourself a nice stack, but it's nothing I would recommend.

There's always better situations to get the money in than this.

Cheers
 
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