Making big laydowns

I can't seem to get away from great hands that get soured on the flop. If I'm holding KK, and the flop comes Q83, I just find it so hard to get out of that situation. What kind of tricks can someone like me use to gauge the difference between betting for value and betting to throw my money down the drain to my opponent's set?

At the lower levels, people telegraph when they have a HUGE hand. Goes something like this:

limp in pre-flop--> flop: rag, rag, rag --> call bet --> turn --> MASSIVE RAISE/OVERBET (at this point they are telling you they have two pair or a set, if you have just one pair or an overpair, you need to fold).

If you put a big enough raise in preflop you should never hit the problem!!!!!

sharkyo01 said:

If you put a big enough raise in preflop you should never hit the problem!!!!!

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But I don't want to just win the blinds with big hands, right? Say with AA, I want someone to come along with me. If I raise 3.5x or 4x and get one called, and the flop comes Q82o, villain calls a half to 2/3 pot size bet, shouldn't some kind of warning bell at least go off? I seem to get blinded with my hand's strength, and forget to consider that they could have come along with my raise with 88 or QQ.

With monster hands you need to play them as strong as the hand is. If you let people limp in with crap or even good (not great hands) they are bound to hit every now and then. This is poker. Honestly I do not like AA considering some of the crazy beats that can happen with them but that does not mean they are a poor hand. Play them strong but not wild and it will definitely pay off.

i wouldnt get into the habit of making big laydowns, and whatever you do, dont tell anyone you just folded KK, they WILL be more likely to bluff you in the future

sharkyo01 said:

If you put a big enough raise in preflop you should never hit the problem!!!!!

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Not true, in the low limits people will push with 66 thinking they have you beat pre. Most assume youre looking down at ace something and you would have to hit to improve. Granted the deal with micro limits is trying and get all in pre with AA or something, but i have run into people calling with some weak pocket pair and hitting trips or even quads. Its all part of poker i guess but most assume that they have you beat. Thats also part of the reason why its so lucrative.

Its near impossible to sense when someone has hit a low set unless you have a great read on their play so far in the tourney.
The best rule to stick to is, dont put yourself in a position where you can go broke with an over-pair. They look strong when you see a rag board on the flop, but they are not infallible.
Test the water with a 3/4 pot size bet and see what sort of action comes back at you. If you panic or get excited and shove straight away, your probably only getting called by a hand that has you beaten.

in a cash game low stakes id be super happy getting it in on pretty much any board, were talking cash games bad players low levels i cant see folding as an option (most of the time) exceptions of course.. reads and what not

That is a tough call, but you have to bet your hand if you are first to act. I seem to invite chasers with a bet small, so bet the pot. If he calls or raises, you have some info. You have to respect the reraise, but if you just get a call, that could mean just top pair. Maybe check or bet a smaller ratio after the turn and see what you learn. If you end up all in, you are going there with KK, not a bad race, even if it is broken up by rounds of betting! When you have position and you are trying to determine if they are betting for value or to make a steal, then you might consider the reraise yourself. If he calls or pushes back, odds are you are facing AA or a set...or a donk. You gotta fold there. Keep your chips and your chair and fight another fight. It always sucks when that beautiful pocket pair turns to crap when the cards start to come, but thats poker!

sharkyo01 said:

If you put a big enough raise in preflop you should never hit the problem!!!!!

Click to expand...

It depends if you're referring to cash games or tournament play (and if tournament, how deep the stacks are.. ie. if you're both sitting 40+bb's deep then villain will be getting the right impl. odds to call preflop with any pocket pair (as long as he figures he's not going to get squeezed &/or is closing out the action OR is near to closing it out).

If this is tournament play, I'm not folding the KK on this flop regardless of how they might play back at me. You'll get players with AQ more times than you'll see a set.

Good players are capable of folding the 'best hand' in tournament play. I doubt I'd fold the one you've mentioned here (of course it 'depends', eg. how deep your stacks are, villain's playing style & history, your table image, blind level, etc.).