Made my first friend playing poker ;) yay. And question about staking

So after 6 months of moving to a new city and transferring to a new school, I finally have a friend. And from of all places... the poker room at the casino. Well I guess that gives us a common interest and something to do.

The grand I lost playing 1/2 suddenly doesn't hurt as much.

(Question), We're about to hit the tables, and I explained that I don't have cash for poker this week. I asked him to stake me and then offered to pay him back plus winnings if I'm up, or at the end of the month when I get my paycheck from online business....

Is this rude? I'm offering to drive and park since the garage is packed tonight, and also offering collateral to him since we don't know each other that great.

What would a proper % be of winnings from a stake at a 1/2 cash game? And what would be a proper amount to pay back from $200?

Lol sorry for being dumb... just jittery. leik omg human contact... man-friend-gasm

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 193,297.00
SB: 111,072.00
BB: 222,089.00
UTG: 198,492.00
Hero (CO): 61,050.00

BTN posts ante 700.00, SB posts ante 700.00, BB posts ante 700.00, UTG posts ante 700.00, Hero posts ante 700.00, SB posts SB 3,500.00, BB posts BB 7,000.00

Pre Flop: (14000.00) Hero has Q:spade: A:club:

UTG raises to 14,000.00, Hero calls 14,000.00, fold, fold, BB calls 7,000.00

Flop: (49000.00, 3 players) 8:club: 7:diamond: 6:heart:
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 7,000.00, fold, UTG calls 7,000.00

Turn: (63000.00, 2 players) 6:spade:
UTG bets 7,000.00, Hero calls 7,000.00

River: (77000.00, 2 players) 9:club:
UTG bets 169,792.00 and is all-in, Hero calls 32,350.00 and is all-in

UTG shows 6:club: A:spade: (Three of a Kind, Sixes) (Pre 26%, Flop 83%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Q:spade: A:club: (One Pair, Sixes) (Pre 74%, Flop 17%, Turn 0%)
UTG wins 141,700.00



What did I do wrong here? I did cash (5/64) so I'm not upset with my play, just this hand is bugging me.

Edit: I see it now, I should have raised pre flop instead of cold calling. The question is how much? a push? or 50%?

Ship it in before the flop.

You just made a friend - leave finances out of the friendship if you want to keep it.

Weffy said:

So after 6 months of moving to a new city and transferring to a new school, I finally have a friend. And from of all places... the poker room at the casino. Well I guess that gives us a common interest and something to do.

The grand I lost playing 1/2 suddenly doesn't hurt as much.

(Question), We're about to hit the tables, and I explained that I don't have cash for poker this week. I asked him to stake me and then offered to pay him back plus winnings if I'm up, or at the end of the month when I get my paycheck from online business....

Is this rude? I'm offering to drive and park since the garage is packed tonight, and also offering collateral to him since we don't know each other that great.

What would a proper % be of winnings from a stake at a 1/2 cash game? And what would be a proper amount to pay back from $200?

Lol sorry for being dumb... just jittery. leik omg human contact... man-friend-gasm

Click to expand...

First off, I don't know you but it's good to have a friend with a common interest. This may sound self serving but there's nothing better than having someone to discuss hands with to improve you're game. And the best way to keep a friend is to not ask him for money. There's nothing wrong with having a friendly business arrangement but it just doesn't work the other way around. Time to decide which is more important to you.

Secondly, staking at $1/$2 just doesn't make sense. Between rake, tips, money taken out for bad beat jackpots and travel expenses there are really very few winning players, and if you do somehow manage to squeeze out a profit, splitting it with someone else just adds to the burden. IMO, having the friend is more valuable.

Clearly a preflop shove - every time, all day long.

If that is in question for you I would definitely not be staking you, but if I did it's 30% minimum on any loan.

But do yourself a favor - commit to becoming a much better player and spend a couple years on it before borrowing money to piss away.

I wouldn't mix money with friendship. If you insist on it, do it as a straight loan with 10-20% extra on payment and a fixed term (repay within 72 hours of your next paycheck, for example). Loans have enough potential issues to ruin friendships, staking has more.

When you ask someone to stake you, you put them in a spot where they have to be critical of your game. If he doesn't want to stake you because he feels like you're not going to be a good bet, he is in a hard spot. He either gives you the money, knowing he'll probably lose it. Or he tells you that he doesn't want to stake you, and you get butt-hurt over it because he thinks you're not the king of poker. On top of that, he also has a vested interest in your play at that point and it can be distracting (or more work than he wants). There are more but these are two of the biggies that come to mind.

If you must, take it as a loan. Guarantee him a return of x% within a certain time and stick to it. Keep it simple.

Weffy said:

So after 6 months of moving to a new city and transferring to a new school, I finally have a friend. And from of all places... the poker room at the casino. Well I guess that gives us a common interest and something to do.

The grand I lost playing 1/2 suddenly doesn't hurt as much.

(Question), We're about to hit the tables, and I explained that I don't have cash for poker this week. I asked him to stake me and then offered to pay him back plus winnings if I'm up, or at the end of the month when I get my paycheck from online business....

Is this rude? I'm offering to drive and park since the garage is packed tonight, and also offering collateral to him since we don't know each other that great.

What would a proper % be of winnings from a stake at a 1/2 cash game? And what would be a proper amount to pay back from $200?

Lol sorry for being dumb... just jittery. leik omg human contact... man-friend-gasm

Click to expand...

As stated above, either don't take the stake, or change thread title to; "Found a new online sucker, how much do you guys think I can take him for?

Weffy said:

So after 6 months of moving to a new city and transferring to a new school, I finally have a friend. And from of all places... the poker room at the casino. Well I guess that gives us a common interest and something to do.

The grand I lost playing 1/2 suddenly doesn't hurt as much.

(Question), We're about to hit the tables, and I explained that I don't have cash for poker this week. I asked him to stake me and then offered to pay him back plus winnings if I'm up, or at the end of the month when I get my paycheck from online business....

Is this rude? I'm offering to drive and park since the garage is packed tonight, and also offering collateral to him since we don't know each other that great.

What would a proper % be of winnings from a stake at a 1/2 cash game? And what would be a proper amount to pay back from $200?

Lol sorry for being dumb... just jittery. leik omg human contact... man-friend-gasm

Click to expand...

Okay I'm a little confused about one thing you said... which was "We're about to hit the tables, and I explained that I don't have cash for poker this week. I asked him to stake me and then offered to pay him back plus winnings if I'm up, or at the end of the month when I get my paycheck from online business...."

When you said I offered to pay him back plus winnings did you mean if you won you will split the profits with him or did you mean if you win or lose you would pay him back his initial $200 investment? if you meant the second one that is not a stake that is a loan and please becareful to be clear on which of the ones you mean when making ANY kind of money transactions with another player or backer.

As for your question about staking the standard stake is you sell 100% of your action meaning he pays for you to play, and after your session if you are winning you give him back his intial stake which in your example is $200 and then split all if any profits 50-50.

Here is a link on staking vs loans it defines both in detail:
http://www.pokerlistings.com/strategy/bankroll-management/getting-staked-vs-borrowing

Please keep in mind friendship and staking OR Friendship and loaning are two pieces that don't fit a lot of the time, Especially a new friendship you wouldn't want to just meet some one then have them ask you for money would you? Only discuss business arrangements for poker with business partners/backers and very close friends whom you trust and he trusts you.

Warning: Once trust among friends is broken you can never get it back

Good luck @ the tables!!!

You already lost a grand and want to borrow money for more? Something wrong with that picture.

Weffy said:

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 193,297.00
SB: 111,072.00
BB: 222,089.00
UTG: 198,492.00
Hero (CO): 61,050.00

BTN posts ante 700.00, SB posts ante 700.00, BB posts ante 700.00, UTG posts ante 700.00, Hero posts ante 700.00, SB posts SB 3,500.00, BB posts BB 7,000.00

Pre Flop: (14000.00) Hero has Q♠ A♣

UTG raises to 14,000.00, Hero calls 14,000.00, fold, fold, BB calls 7,000.00

Flop: (49000.00, 3 players) 8♣ 7♦ 6♥
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 7,000.00, fold, UTG calls 7,000.00

Turn: (63000.00, 2 players) 6♠
UTG bets 7,000.00, Hero calls 7,000.00

River: (77000.00, 2 players) 9♣
UTG bets 169,792.00 and is all-in, Hero calls 32,350.00 and is all-in

UTG shows 6♣ A♠ (Three of a Kind, Sixes) (Pre 26%, Flop 83%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Q♠ A♣ (One Pair, Sixes) (Pre 74%, Flop 17%, Turn 0%)
UTG wins 141,700.00



What did I do wrong here? I did cash (5/64) so I'm not upset with my play, just this hand is bugging me.

Edit: I see it now, I should have raised pre flop instead of cold calling. The question is how much? a push? or 50%?

Click to expand...

Do NOT let them see this HandHistory while asking for a stake!!!!

dakota-xx said:

You just made a friend - leave finances out of the friendship if you want to keep it.

Click to expand...

i would tend to agree with this

Weffy said:

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 193,297.00
SB: 111,072.00
BB: 222,089.00
UTG: 198,492.00
Hero (CO): 61,050.00

BTN posts ante 700.00, SB posts ante 700.00, BB posts ante 700.00, UTG posts ante 700.00, Hero posts ante 700.00, SB posts SB 3,500.00, BB posts BB 7,000.00

Pre Flop: (14000.00) Hero has Q♠ A♣

UTG raises to 14,000.00, Hero calls 14,000.00, fold, fold, BB calls 7,000.00

Flop: (49000.00, 3 players) 8♣ 7♦ 6♥
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 7,000.00, fold, UTG calls 7,000.00

Turn: (63000.00, 2 players) 6♠
UTG bets 7,000.00, Hero calls 7,000.00

River: (77000.00, 2 players) 9♣
UTG bets 169,792.00 and is all-in, Hero calls 32,350.00 and is all-in

UTG shows 6♣ A♠ (Three of a Kind, Sixes) (Pre 26%, Flop 83%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Q♠ A♣ (One Pair, Sixes) (Pre 74%, Flop 17%, Turn 0%)
UTG wins 141,700.00



What did I do wrong here? I did cash (5/64) so I'm not upset with my play, just this hand is bugging me.

Edit: I see it now, I should have raised pre flop instead of cold calling. The question is how much? a push? or 50%?

Click to expand...

K, first thing this post does not belong in this thread, second not re-raising preflop was only one of the mistakes you made... Your attempt to steal on the flop failed mostly because it was a min bet ... then you call a min bet on the turn IMO that's either a raise or fold situation... then the river you called a shove with A high in a spot where I don't see villain bluffing....

S3mper said:

K, first thing this post does not belong in this thread, second not re-raising preflop was only one of the mistakes you made... Your attempt to steal on the flop failed mostly because it was a min bet ... then you call a min bet on the turn IMO that's either a raise or fold situation... then the river you called a shove with A high in a spot where I don't see villain bluffing....

Click to expand...

Yep, OP you really couldn't have played this hand any worse. You have ~10BB's, easy shove PF to collect blinds/ante's as you don't want this happening.

Flop, easy check/fold on that draw heavy board.
Turn, easy fold, he isn't folding to your stack size.
River, easiest fold in the world, wtf are you doing calling.

Think of all the hands that are never folding there, any set, any straight, the only chance of winning that hand is shoving pre. True, hindsight is 50/50 but that is a tough board to just stack off your chips on. Good luck.

I play terrible towards the end of a long session. That was the final hand I played on the final table of a MTT with ~600 players.

That hand tells the story enough for now, I'll get back to everything else when I've got more time.

The money was not a stake. $50 loan to be paid back $65 in a couple weeks. Both understood that it would most likely be gone, plus this kid knows I'm not the best... although I played the best session ever with it. Up to 350 in what seems like no time then back down to 100 then a couple bad calls and it's gone. Ahh I love NL hold'em. All together a 7 hour session, I'll try to tell the good parts later.

Good points on money/friends all. I'd rather not owe my friends money and that was a bad call if any to take it.

Poker Orifice said:

Do NOT let them see this HandHistory while asking for a stake!!!!

Click to expand...

LOL, PO, honestly man, was in tears when i read this post.

That hand. Haha.

I'm remembering a bit of what I was thinking now.

UTG's move for the previous 15 or so hands was to bet pre-flop then try to bluff you out of he hand. I figured he was just playing the part when he was betting, then when I just cold called, I thought the shove was him re-thinking his tactics and trying to get his chips back.

That's what I was thinking THEN. Now, after reading that hand over and over it is extremely obvious that villain made the nuts, and was slow playing the turn. Now I agree with YoshiMoo 100%

This hand is better in terms of knowing when to fold? Ahahaha

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

LP: 3,895.00
CO: 1,426.00
BTN: 4,428.00
Hero (SB): 2,877.00
BB: 3,520.00
UTG: 2,380.00
UTG+1: 3,025.00
MP: 4,899.00
MP+1: 1,260.00

LP posts ante 20.00, CO posts ante 20.00, BTN posts ante 20.00, Hero posts ante 20.00, BB posts ante 20.00, UTG posts ante 20.00, UTG+1 posts ante 20.00, MP posts ante 20.00, MP+1 posts ante 20.00, Hero posts SB 100.00, BB posts BB 200.00

Pre Flop: (480.00) Hero has A<font color='red'>♦</font> 5<font color='black'>♣</font>

UTG raises to 400.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 300.00, BB calls 200.00

Flop: (1380.00, 3 players) 3<font color='black'>♠</font> 8<font color='red'>♥</font> 6<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets 690.00, fold, fold

UTG wins 1,380.00

weffy , in the first hand you posted with the AQ, the big mistake that you made was not to move all in preflop. When you see his raise you must go all in on order to win his raise+ the dead moneyt on the table(blinds and antes).

Why? because he might have folded and you could have won without him hitting those sixes and taking all your chips. If he did call he would have made a bad call since you are ahead here in most cases.

Do you understand where the mistake is in your play?

except for that the other HUGE mistake the way the hand was played was your call. What are you calling with here? A high? Its kinda obvious that villain understands that you have alil bit of something urself here usualy. Hes not very often going all in with absolute air.

What is your plan? to float with air and calldown with ace high? Can you give me some thought reasoning for the hand.?

Anyways man. better luck next time. You live, You learn.

Weffy said:

This hand is better in terms of knowing when to fold? Ahahaha

Merge - $0+$0|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

LP: 3,895.00
CO: 1,426.00
BTN: 4,428.00
Hero (SB): 2,877.00
BB: 3,520.00
UTG: 2,380.00
UTG+1: 3,025.00
MP: 4,899.00
MP+1: 1,260.00

LP posts ante 20.00, CO posts ante 20.00, BTN posts ante 20.00, Hero posts ante 20.00, BB posts ante 20.00, UTG posts ante 20.00, UTG+1 posts ante 20.00, MP posts ante 20.00, MP+1 posts ante 20.00, Hero posts SB 100.00, BB posts BB 200.00

Pre Flop: (480.00) Hero has A<font color='red'>♦</font> 5<font color='black'>♣</font>

UTG raises to 400.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 300.00, BB calls 200.00

Flop: (1380.00, 3 players) 3<font color='black'>♠</font> 8<font color='red'>♥</font> 6<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets 690.00, fold, fold

UTG wins 1,380.00

Click to expand...

No it isnt

Weffy said:

This hand is better in terms of knowing when to fold? Ahahaha

Click to expand...

Sorry but NO - KEY WORD "WHEN" to fold

Your fold is a street too late