Low Pocket Pairs

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Piranha 131

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What is the best way play low pocket pairs?

I always seem to get pocket 6's and never now what to do. I usually call any small bets and try to get trips on the flop. If I miss I fold. Is there a better way to play this.

Thanks for any advice.
 
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paumarhas

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limping or getting in cheaply is the best way.
even though you can massive bet at least 5xbb or more depending on your position and the table.

i've read depending on your pair you wouldn't exceed the value of your pair x's the bb, so for your 6's you wouldn't exceed 6 xbb that is for calling a bet. but i prefer to be in control with small PP or i mostly fold.

don't be so quick to fold either - opp might not have you beat. :hello: gl
 
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kevkojak

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Depends on position, level and stack size.
Are you talking tourneys or ring?
Early to mid stages, early position, usually call.
Late position, raise. Late stages, raise in most positions - even 4 bet if reasonably stacked.
You have a 1 in 7.5 chance of making your set, so you need to make sure your opponent has at least 7.5 times the bet (so 750 if its 100 to call) to make it worth calling. Implied odds.
Calling these is essential when your priced in. A middling set is usually well disguised. Folding when you miss is also a good move. No Set, No Bet is a good rule.
Mix it up though. Just because you didn't make a set doesn't mean your behind.
 
eberetta1

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I fold em unless I am big or small blind.
Funny, 22 took out my Big Slick in a tourney yesterday. As a slap in the face after neither of my cards showed up after 5 community cards, the river card was a 2, so I lost to trips 2's. The guy was not even a blind for goodness sake. If I try that nonsense, my trip a's would simply lose to a straight.
 
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kevkojak

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i've read depending on your pair you wouldn't exceed the value of your pair x's the bb, so for your 6's you wouldn't exceed 6 xbb that is for calling a bet. but i prefer to be in control with small PP or i mostly fold.
Whaa?
So for 10 10 you can bet 10x BB?
Never heard that one, sounds a bit off the wall.
Again...if your short, you're shoving here anyway. Certainly less than 10 BB's. Its your opponents stack you need to be checking. If they don't have 7.5x the value of YOUR CALL then your not priced in, and not in a spot to play unless the potential hit from losing is insignificant in comparison to your stack.
 
Kenzie 96

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Welcome to the forum, 2 in your hand & 1 on the board is a set, 1 in your hand & 2 on the board is trips. As with all poker decisions it depends. Their are different ways to play low pocket pairs. Position, stack size, position, relative stack size, position, how agressive/passive the rest of the table is, position all should be factored in. I usually, should proceed, fold trash hands OOP & play big hands fast. Try mixing it up a bit, fold or raise more.
 
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paumarhas

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hahahahaha honest i did read that somewhere, i think it was from FTPA. hahahahaha it does sound ridiculous now that you mention it like that. :D

listen on FT i've seen them many times go allin w/ 2's and 3's taking chances.

besides you don't have to take my advice i'm just giving you options. and again i did read that and i thought it was strange. but you have to know your table and adjust to play all the time.

okay disregard my remarks.................gl and peace :hello: bye
 
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Piranha 131

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I think I am going to like this forum. I ask a question and get all these great replies. Thanks again for the help.
 
thepokerkid123

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I think I am going to like this forum. I ask a question and get all these great replies. Thanks again for the help.

Dude...

Seriously don't believe everything people say.



The following is better, keep in mind that I'm clueless about tournaments but even that bit is a better guide than above.

I'm counting small pocket pairs as 66 or lower.

Cash:
6max it's an open raise from any position on any table, and if it's raised before you then it's basically a choice of set mining or 3betting. Set mining depends on effective stack size and how leaky your opponent is post-flop but typically I'd go for the 3bet because it will usually show a bigger profit based on fold equity (including the opportunity to cbet with a very strong range).
Full ring, pretty much the same thing but fold in the first 1-3 positions on most tables.

Tournaments/SNGs/I-have-no-idea-what-I'm-talking-about-so-we-can-jam-all-of-this-advice-in-together:
In the early stages you can set mine, although you still shouldn't ever limp.
Once the blinds start raising a bit though they should be folded quite often (not certain about that bit), although they should almost always be an open raise from LP but 3bet or fold quite often if someone else has already entered the pot (you don't have odds to set mine).
Once you've got say <12bb all pp's are pretty much always an open shove and usually a fold to any action. With obvious exceptions based on payout structure.


Yeah, my tourney advice sucks, I'm hoping someone smarter posts and says where it's wrong.
Anyway, my main advice is don't believe anything anyone says about anything (poker related or not) and question it yourself.

-

Oh and random stuff that's wrong:
limping or getting in cheaply is the best way.
Don't limp.

i've read depending on your pair you wouldn't exceed the value of your pair x's the bb, so for your 6's you wouldn't exceed 6 xbb that is for calling a bet. but i prefer to be in control with small PP or i mostly fold.
It doesn't make any difference how many bb's go in pre-flop, what matters is the stack size relative to the pre-flop bets. You should also not alter your own betsizes based on your hand (ok, that last bit isn't entirely true but short of getting into freakishly complicated explanations that I don't fully understand, it's near enough).

You have a 1 in 7.5 chance of making your set, so you need to make sure your opponent has at least 7.5 times the bet (so 750 if its 100 to call) to make it worth calling. Implied odds.
This assumes you're going to win their entire stack every time you hit. You wont. Not even close.
You need the effective stack to be much deeper than this.
 
thepokerkid123

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Oh and sorry if I came across as rude, I don't mean any offence to anyone, everyone's at their own stage of learning and all of our opinions are ultimately wrong just different stages of accuracy.

The previous advice was wrong, that's all.
 
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WillySmackYoAss

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Welcome to the forum, 2 in your hand & 1 on the board is a set, 1 in your hand & 2 on the board is trips. As with all poker decisions it depends.

Is this a fact? If so, I'd like to see it. I'm pretty sure three of a kind is three of a kind and Set and Trips are slang terms for it. In the end the hand still loses to a straight and beats two pair.

I like playing small pairs against stacks I know will come my way if I hit the set. This is almost always true at a 1/2 live game in a casino in Atlantic City. They just put their head down with any over pair.
 
thepokerkid123

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Is this a fact? If so, I'd like to see it. I'm pretty sure three of a kind is three of a kind and Set and Trips are slang terms for it. In the end the hand still loses to a straight and beats two pair.

I like playing small pairs against stacks I know will come my way if I hit the set. This is almost always true at a 1/2 live game in a casino in Atlantic City. They just put their head down with any over pair.

The first part, yes, it's true. I haven't seen it documented anywhere but it's fairly common knowledge. The reason trips and set are labelled differently is because they're very different hands. It is sometimes correct to fold trips because the amount of hands that can beat you is greater (kicker issues) but it's almost always a mistake to fold sets. Sets are also more disguised.

The second part, I agree. Despite generally sucking at poker, a large part of my income last year came from set mining in live poker (or so I estimate). I almost never folded pp's pre-flop in 1/2 and 2/3 because the implied odds were just too good, especially with all of the multi-way pots.
 
Four Dogs

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In tournaments small pairs are useless if you can't get in cheaply. You're fishing for a set and nothing else. A lot of good players refuse to limp any hand for any reason but IMO it's ok at a weak table if you think there's a good chance of not getting raised or better yet setting off a school of calls. I rareley do this but I've never heard anyone give a good argument against it other than it gives away info on your hand. Well, that's ok if your going to get paid off anyway by any top pair or draw. At low buy-ins there just aren't that many people paying attention.

You can raise too if you think you can take it down with a CB on the flop but in that case, it really doesn't matter what cards you have. The nice thing about this is that it's very easy to get away from this sort of hand and on the rare occasions when you make your set it's very nicely desguised

Later on in a tourney small pairs should be mucked outright in early position and shoved from late position when your bellow 20 BB's.

As far as the trips vs set argument goes, when I first started playing I was careful to distinguish between the 2 but after reading a ton of books where the authors made no such distinction I just gave up. Harrington calls everthing trips, period.
 
lektrikguy

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In position and for a cheap flop-that's what you want. If you don't get both then lay them down.
 
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kevkojak

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Dude...

Seriously don't believe everything people say.



The following is better, keep in mind that I'm clueless about tournaments but even that bit is a better guide than above.

I'm counting small pocket pairs as 66 or lower.

Cash:
6max it's an open raise from any position on any table, and if it's raised before you then it's basically a choice of set mining or 3betting. Set mining depends on effective stack size and how leaky your opponent is post-flop but typically I'd go for the 3bet because it will usually show a bigger profit based on fold equity (including the opportunity to cbet with a very strong range).
Full ring, pretty much the same thing but fold in the first 1-3 positions on most tables.

Tournaments/SNGs/I-have-no-idea-what-I'm-talking-about-so-we-can-jam-all-of-this-advice-in-together:
In the early stages you can set mine, although you still shouldn't ever limp.
Once the blinds start raising a bit though they should be folded quite often (not certain about that bit), although they should almost always be an open raise from LP but 3bet or fold quite often if someone else has already entered the pot (you don't have odds to set mine).
Once you've got say <12bb all pp's are pretty much always an open shove and usually a fold to any action. With obvious exceptions based on payout structure.


Yeah, my tourney advice sucks, I'm hoping someone smarter posts and says where it's wrong.
Anyway, my main advice is don't believe anything anyone says about anything (poker related or not) and question it yourself.

-

Oh and random stuff that's wrong:

Don't limp.


It doesn't make any difference how many bb's go in pre-flop, what matters is the stack size relative to the pre-flop bets. You should also not alter your own betsizes based on your hand (ok, that last bit isn't entirely true but short of getting into freakishly complicated explanations that I don't fully understand, it's near enough).


This assumes you're going to win their entire stack every time you hit. You wont. Not even close.
You need the effective stack to be much deeper than this.

Are you sure my bit was wrong? I've been reading about implied odds and I was pretty sure that to give yourself equity to call hands like this (lets say its a 1-10 shot) you need your opponent to have 10x the bet size for you to Potentially take off them. Whether you manage to win it or not...
Need some clarification on this if anyone else has a look. Cheers.
 
thepokerkid123

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Yes, I'm sure.

Assuming 10:1
You need to win 10 on average if you pay 1 to see a flop.
With a stack of 10, you can only win a maximum of 10.

As well as just not getting action, your hand will also not always be good and not always hold up.
 
NCfoldem

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I say : "Invest in Gold." I'm sorry, what was the question again?
 
Poker Orifice

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Are you sure my bit was wrong? I've been reading about implied odds and I was pretty sure that to give yourself equity to call hands like this (lets say its a 1-10 shot) you need your opponent to have 10x the bet size for you to Potentially take off them. Whether you manage to win it or not...
Need some clarification on this if anyone else has a look. Cheers.

It's ~ 8:1 to hit your set, but it's suggested that you're getting 15to1 (not 10to1)... (effective stack sizes should be 15x the size of the bet). some MTT players actually suggest closer to 20to1. This takes into account the times we're hitting our set but aren't stacking villain off anyways (thus needing ~15:1 instead of just 10:1). vs. some opponents (& some situations) 10to1 would be ok (ie. when vs. type of villain that's going to be getting it in vs. us the majority of the time).
 
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budebuzz

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I think the most effictive way to play small poket pairs is to position bet but I really like limping when I hit a set because it is so sneaky.
 
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supercompact

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I tend to limp them and play as small a pot as possible and just check along unless I hit a set on the flop, then I'll bet right out for value and hope to get called or raised. If I'm at the cut off or button and everyone checks to me on a ragged board I would bet maybe 1/2 to 2/3 the pot to try to take it down. If someone check raises me, I'll cut my loses and live to fight another day.
 
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Low pocket pairs

Usually under the gun, you should enter for as cheaply as possible, hoping that a call of the big blind is good enough. If on the small or big blind, you can call a reraise if the player making it is very aggressive. In both events, you are hoping for a set or better. However, if you do flop three of a kind or turn a straight, you better beware of a higher set or straight since you will probably have the lower set or straight!!!!....sendittoken......:eek:
 
D_russo88

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I fold em unless I am big or small blind.
Funny, 22 took out my Big Slick in a tourney yesterday. As a slap in the face after neither of my cards showed up after 5 community cards, the river card was a 2, so I lost to trips 2's. The guy was not even a blind for goodness sake. If I try that nonsense, my trip a's would simply lose to a straight.

Thats Sucks!!! Who calls 22 to the river without catching anything. I lose with Aces more than i win.:congrats:
 
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cibonazg

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the most usual advice i had for low pairs is try to see flop cheap and try to catch on something in it...
and cheap means two or three times larger than big blind or less...
mmmm i have great spelling hahahaha
 
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