Losing sessions - Bad cards?

S

sweepnet

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Total posts
48
Chips
0
I have been a slowly losing player for several months. I have a run of winning sessions then a longer run of losing sessions. But lately the cards just seem bad.

Today I played 570 hands.

Had AA 4 times (actually seems high for me lately) but no one played against me, and won a total of $0.77 from them. Saw a couple of flops, but when CK, everyone folded.

Had KK - 5 times - $0.69

Had AK, AQ 17 times. I only hit the flop 2 of those, and lost both, once when someone had a flush and when he had a straight.

KQ - 8 times, hit the flop once.

So I thought you hit the flop about 30% right? I hit it there about 12%.

I had pairs besides the AA and KK 25 times, and hit the flop 2 of them. One of the KK hit K on the flop also. I guess that isnt too far out of line. They were both at the end of the session, so I was getting frustrated. Again, bet out and no takers.

My pocket QQ ended up loosing to pocket AA

So when I play the premium hands, nothing happens or when worse, I lose and the lesser hands, I also end up loosing.

I am playing a tight game, this session was 17/7, but that is because I am at the end of my bankroll, and want to play the premium hands.

Any thoughts.
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Total posts
5,266
Awards
8
CA
Chips
832
Mayhaps your opponents are seeing you are a nit and adjusting accordingly? If you raise, they look down at some low unsuited connectors and think "If nothing higher than a J hits the flop, he missed and I'm gonna get paid."

I guess I should also ask the obligitory 'what stakes, what position, etc, etc.....' but I'm not gonna, somebody else surely will.
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Total posts
5,266
Awards
8
CA
Chips
832
Ok, I should probably elaborate on this a bit. I do not play cash games, I play STT and MTT. Having said that, I am predominately a very tight player, and knowing this, I can sometimes see how my opponents are adjusting their play based on this and exploiting me on low flops. They are sometimes playing back at me with lower cards as they figured they'd probably be live. And When I play nitty, they are right. C-bets are called alot more frequently, and more showdowns are seen because unless some serious paint hits the flop, they keep calling my bets. Gotta be careful about this.
 
S

sweepnet

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Total posts
48
Chips
0
Playing Microstakes, .01/.02 positions vary as I did get the premium cards multiple times. I can understand the folds when I raise on the button and c/o, but playing with 92/44 players who then fold when I raise is a little frustating.
 
S

sweepnet

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Total posts
48
Chips
0
And then, it is frustrating to sit for 500 hands and not hit my whole cards except for the 2 times, which I then lost. I understand variance, but it is hard to be patient at the beginning when I am trying to build a bankroll. Variance plus my accepted learning/lower quality play is not nice to bankroll.
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Total posts
5,266
Awards
8
CA
Chips
832
This game's a bitch, ain't it? And unfortunately, even the fishies fold sometimes. You're on a downswing and in a slump. Try not to worry yourself too much about it. PLay the way you are comfortable playing, maybe vary your range a bit so as your bets/raises are not too easy to read, and things will improve.
 
P

Pistol_Shot_Ian

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Total posts
29
Chips
0
Right now all I can comment on is cash games as I haven't gotten enough scratch together for tourney's yet and I personally don't want to dick around in the freerolls right now. I'd rather be making cash and thus far I've acquired about $31 in about 10 days. At playing 2 hours or so a day I'm proud of that and I've taken notes on how my game has increased and I'm playing .01/.02 microstakes. This doesn't mean I've been playing poker for 10 days. I've just decided to start playing online poker. Here's how I've increased my earnings.

1. As I've learned to play different hands at different positions this has increased my win rate signifigantly. I mean 10/9 unsuited, 8/9 unsuited, rag aces (I particularly like A9 and A5 in late position). Open ended straight draws hit about 34% of the time by river. A straight flush draw hits a straight or better 54% of the time by the river. I've earned money playing these kind of straights consistently and closing out quite a few hands by semi bluffing. And yes once or twice on a straight up bluff.

2. Speaking of which I'm constantly reading articles, watching vids, and staying up on forum issues that come to me while playing. I write down questions I have and search the net for the answers and THEN if I can't find them I post here. I've ran across many many extra articles this way searching for my answers instead of posting them right away. One of which has changed my win rate dramatically. It's about good cards and betting! I understand that there's times when this doesn't apply, but if you have good cards you should be betting them and if you wanted to play them and were gonna bet out before some bets.... Call the bet if it isn't too strong. There is still part of this game that is up to chance. If you have good cards play them, you can't win w/o playing them. I swear to god more people raise the w/ hands like A/10, KJ, K/9, rag Ace more often than not. Put it to you this way. If I get a King/anything suited under the gun I gotta see that flop so I'm pumping in .08 - .10. It confuses the HELL outta people all the time cuz everyone thinks you have premieum hands. All I'm trying to do is get some of them would be callers to fold and catch 1 or 2 callers. If they RE-Raise, fold it.

3. When I grasped the concept of folding that REALLY put a clamp on large leaks. If you're on A/K paired K on the flop and your putting in value bets till the river and all of a sudden this guy puts u all in... Think about it before you chuck all in because you have A/K. It's powerful but it's still only a drawing hand. I read a fantastic article on A/K recently and it explained how properly folding A/K in certain situations will increase your winnings dramatically. Folding has made me money in the long run man... Swear to god.

4. Another concept I grasped is putting people on a range. I am constantly trying to get better at this. It isn't about nailing a certain hand on your opponent. It's taking how they are betting, the available cards, and putting them on a few hands. It's an artform and every avid poker player as far as I'm concerned should constantly be practicing this. Another thing that tight players don't like to do and it seriously inhibits their playing and winnings is placing information bets. Sometimes you don't have position and you may have the best hand and be worry about an overcard. Get that 1/5-1/4 pot bet out there. I LEARN SO MUCH about my opponents online this way. I have to quaduple the money I spend on information by the end of my session everytime.

5. Get this out of your head and I'm gonna piss a lot of people off w/ this comment but hear me out. This whole "variance" thing is B.S. All I can pin it on is a head trip. I played Baseball and that's like when a hitter goes into a slump. It happens to EVERYONE at some point or another. This is how you fix that. Confidence. U may get dealt 30 bad hands.... don't play them. Instead of taking down this massive pot trying to get all your dough back concentrate on those blinds hands. Win some smaller pots. Gain that confidence back and you get out of your funk, slump, varience.... whatever the hell you want to call it. Make no mistake about Poker. This is in every essence of the term a mind SPORT. I can bet most people experience variance after a bad beat. Don't sweat a bad beat. It happens.... ALOT believe it or not. We can't all be The Prince of Poker and even Scottie gets his ass handed to him sometimes. He just don't let it effect his next hand and we do!

6. USE your math don't RELY on it. There's times to use it and there's times to go by that information you gathered. You're playing people here... Living breathing and just as concerned about their money.

7. Continuation betting, 3betting, value betting, and Shoving, <------ You're best friends in certain situations

8. It's fantastic to go over hands after the fact but all the threads u see and charts and this and that.... Use what you know. Memorize some key things such as win percentages ect... I memorized the top 15 hands. As a matter of fact I HATE to play A/Q unsuited. It's a trap hand and needs to be played carefully and folded appropriately. And don't stop there, memorize other things as you retain info. Constantly be memorizing tidbits of USEFUL info.To step 9.........

9. I wish I had 10 steps but I'm not David Letterman. You gotta play to get better and that means your gonna need to spend money. If you're consistantly losing your bankroll over time than you are doing something wrong and it's probably a VERY VERY easy fix. Worst thing you can do is stop playing. Keep playing but start trying different strategies and that starts by reading articles.

Here's my favorite article http://www.deucescracked.com/articles/214-Why-Not-to-Limp I don't care what site this is. No clue and don't even care who this kid is and what his credentials are. I read this article and got something from it. And when something clicks in your mind when you're studying the game of poker via articles and vids give it a boy scouts shot and if it works? Implement it into your game and build off of it! Why not right? That's whats great about this game. No two people play it the same way!

And my MAIN MAIN #1 rule... DO NOT get discouraged by people trying to impress you w/ their "knowledge" of the game. People who speak all high and mighty and this and that. They may know the game but have absolutely nothing to teach you. Helpful, insightful people give much better info. Don't let all the wanna be pros and half ass'd ameaturs at best pollute your mind w/ ridiculous info. I used to know a guy once who could recite the periodic table of elements. Where is he now? He drives a bus. I have no use for know it alls.

Sorry for the book but it sounded like you needed some advice and although I don't have years and years of experience this has what has worked for me. I guess you could call it the basis of my personal poker philosophy right now and I believe that poker philosophies like business plans should be constantly evolving and getting better. Remember... No 2 people play this game exactly alike and whether people like it or not that means EVERYONE has their own poker philosophy.

Good Luck and hope some of this helped you get back on the winning end of things!
 
S

sweepnet

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Total posts
48
Chips
0
Thanks a lot for the post. I have been reading some other articles also and realize part of my problem may have been getting passive. Folding too much instead of going for it. I do some reading and my win rate goes up, I slack off and it goes down. A lot of your post is very helpful.
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

Jammin................
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Total posts
11,708
Awards
2
Chips
122
Nice post Ian. I dont 100% agree with everything you say, but
I am a STT and MTT player, so cash concepts will often be right for cash and wrong for tourney. I like the way you think here. I also believe poker is (in certain ways) an independent thinking game, and certain concepts and styles will work different for each player. There are some absolutes, but many variables.

And while I understand the point you made with 5, I disagree a bit here, although I do agree with a lot of your thought process behind this. Variance = Luck, and it goes both (you and your opponent) and many (you and all factors at the table) ways. Let me explain what I mean.

A.) Lets say you are card dead for a long time, and this can and eventually will happen, again and again. Then you need to play your table (players) since you dont have cards. Now variance (luck) can do different things. You push into a passive BB, and he has the nutz. You exploit your tight image an raise on the button and SB is a loose manic who re raises you. Or all your bets are believed and you win all pots you bet out on. Or you re raise the passive blind stealing button, who calls and has you beat and you suck out. and so on. Luck going everywhich way.

B.) You are getting a good run of cards. Now you bet big and size your bets properly and keep getting called by loose manics who keep sucking out on you. Or your QQ is against KK, and your KK is up against AA and you river the trips/flush/straight. Or you are getting the odds hand after hand and never hitting. And so on. Luck again going every which way.

My point is, variance is not total BS. It will happen. Some times you are getting it in good again and again, and lose. But I still think we are on the same page, since your point in 5 seemed to be more about how to not let it effect your game, and not that it does not exist.

All in all I appreciate your post. The main message I got here was "keep learning and believe in yourself while being honest as well"., and provided I am getting this, I like that message, and it makes sense to me.
 
G

galt

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Total posts
15
Chips
0
You may be playing too tight. You have to be aware of that nit image. Try bluffing once in a while when you have drawn to the river, or make a couple of loose river calls just so you can show that you play weak/foolish hands. Think of it as advertising. Don't get carried away, and it's better to do it early when you first sit down. People are slow to let go of first impressions. By doing it early, if you have an average or good run of cards, you will be able to exploit it better. Not much can help a really bad run of cards except the discipline to walk away.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
Don't put too much stock in your image at micro-stakes. I generally assume people have no image of me unless and until I see indications to the contrary.

Also, don't be in a hurry to blame poor results on bad luck, poor cards, negative variance, etc. All these things happen. However, I can't remember a significant bad run where I wasn't doing something to contribute to my own downfall. That's the part I can fix, but to do so requires finding the things I'm doing less than optimally. And the sooner the better.
 
P

Pistol_Shot_Ian

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Total posts
29
Chips
0
@ Jay - Thanks! You and I my friend are on the exact same page. You actually hit my point right on the head. In my spare time I help train boxers (I love boxing). We NEVER let them talk about losing or winning in the gym. As a matter of fact we tell them. He who works twice as hard outside the ring and transfers that knowledge to the ring gives themselves a shot at winning ALL the time no matter who they are facing. In many ways Poker should be thought about like this but what causes this variance is exactly what you brought up Jay VARIABLES! There's so many variables in this game and you combine that w/ unpredictable nature of human beings and you have a recipe for mental disaster if you can't get a grip on your mind and play your game. Consistent play even thru variance will produce for you in the long run. And being a tourney player Jay, I'm sure you can attest for this. One of my roadies always says "Drinking isn't a race. It's a marathon"... Sounds like Poker right?!

I'll take Arjonius point one step further as it's a good one. Poker was meant to be played face to face for a reason. The tells! The only tell you have online is betting patterns. U know what this means? People like myself adjust to a table not an individual. I can switch up my game from being passive, to aggressive, to anything in-between. I'll show cards at strategic points to throw people off. As fast as someone may guess my type of game I'll change it up and screw them all up. There's sometimes I'm sweating.... Veins popping out of my neck... Saying my hail mary's... But my opponents can't see this. Don't put too much emphasis on nailing down someone elses table persona. Create your own and make the table react to YOU! If you can do this you'll gain valuable knowledge and all of a sudden these LAG's tighten up cuz they have absolutely no clue what you're coming w/ them at. Sure you may lose a couple small pots but when you cripple them w/ a pot that takes a large sum of their money 9 outta 10 times they back right off and you don't have to worry about them playing dog hands. I'll insert a warning here.... IF you are playing live in a casino this trick technique can still work but you gotta be a cool cat. And when playing in a casino.... PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to your opponents and their tells. In this respect sometimes playing online is a lot more misleading than face to face and harder to adjust to.

My eventual goal is to play tourney's. I've been studying and have been in some charity tourney's. Unfortunately I need to build my bankroll before I jump into them. Like Jay said, same game very different philosophies.

I think you'll turn this thing around if you can use your position to open up your range and play some cards you wouldn't normally play. Don't be so quick to fold suited connectors, connectors, flush draws and rag aces in middle to late postion because of a stiff bet before you. They MIGHT have a premium hand or they MAY be trying to filter some people off the table to play a flush. Don't let people fool you either. There's nothing wrong w/ calling a bet pre flop w/ promising cards. Say you call a bet raised 10 times the BB in a cash game. Your opponent has KK you have JT unsuited and the flop comes 9,Q,3... All of a sudden you're on the verge of an open ended straight draw w/ a 34% chance of hitting it by the river. At this point post flop play will come into play and w/ some well thought out play you now have a shot at this pot.

How's your Post Flop play? A lot of people get scared of it but this is where you make all your cake. If you aren't seeing the turn or river w/ these types of drawing hands you are losing out on a lot of opportunities. Don't just play those premium hands. Mix it up, become a better poker player, and learn from the hands you lose. I had someone last night and I checked the river. I had a A/5 with nothing on the board. They checked and revealed an A/9, they had nothing on the board. With one more good bet on that river I'm sure I coulda got them to fold but I slipped up and all the equity I had built between the flop and turn went to my opponent. They made the mistake by not putting in a bet. I most likely would have folded and they'd never had to show their cards. Oh well, it happens. Don't let it bother you.
 
Top