Losing player looking for advice before i quit

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SPungey

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I started playing poker about 2 months ago. And im down about 260 euro since i started out of about 900 games. so obviously im a fish and theres something seriously wrong with my game. Only playing $1.50
sng on pokerstars. mostly 9man turbos but also some 18man turbos and the odd .50c 90man MTT

http://i.imgur.com/LwRsL.png

Ive read moshmans sng strategy a few times and i read various articles on the net about STT and sng, so i probably have the basics right i just wonder has anyone anything i should try to fix it.

My stategy is basically when the blinds are low, either raise with premium hands in any position, re-raise with AA,QQ,KK. Or limp or raise with speculative hands in late position with no pre-raises. Then when the blinds go-up i try to blind steal with a 3BB raise if im near the button, or in the SB. And if i get to below 10BB i either raise all-in with a good hand or try to steal blinds with an all-in raise. I use sngo wizard quiz to try and learn the pushing and folding ranges but im not sure if i have that sort of right or completely wrong.

I didnt place in about 30 games in a row yesterday so kind of pissed about that coz felt i was playing better the last 2 weeks but obviously not. So im guessing i should either start reading a lot more stuff or just quit ?
 
cdooley72

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I think you hit the nail on the head with the statement "I am guessing I should read more". I am by no means a poker pro so I will not give you advice on how to play. But if I had a friend who has only been playing for 2 month and they asked me how to improve I would tell them to read more. And after that read some more. I might even advice to stop depositing real money for now and play freerolls until you get more knowledge/hands under your belt. That way it is a lot less frustrating when you lose and a lot easier to learn what and how you might have played wrong.

Dont quit it is not a game that you are going to master in a short period of time. I hope this helps and good luck and dont give up. Downswings are going to happen no matter how good you are.
 
AlfieAA

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you need to read books and have a natural ability to suss out situations to do well as a beginner....gl
 
Arjonius

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While I'm not a frequent SNG player, the first thought that comes to my mind is that if you actually have the basics alright, it's likely you'd be no worse than around b/e at the levels you're playing. That you're doing worse than this suggests you might want to re-examine your assumption about your ability. I'd guess you still have some relatively basic leaks.
 
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SPungey

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i think thats what i needed to hear. ill stick to freerolls for a bit and do more reading.
 
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Big_Rudy

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While I'm not a frequent SNG player, the first thought that comes to my mind is that if you actually have the basics alright, it's likely you'd be no worse than around b/e at the levels you're playing. That you're doing worse than this suggests you might want to re-examine your assumption about your ability. I'd guess you still have some relatively basic leaks.

^^ I think this is probably the case, too. Just for reference I never played single-table SnGs before about the start of this year, I've never read a single book about them, have never used SnGWiz, and I only play recreationally (at best), yet I am still modestly profitable at the lowest levels.

So, I'd say there are some basic flaws in your game somewhere. The trick is finding them, of course. While people here will certainly try to be helpful; it is a very, very small community of players who play single-table SnGs here. Unfortunately, my best advice is simple to study more and really examine what you're reading. The Moshman books, plus SnG Wiz, are generally highly thought of and should definately get you on the right track IF you are applying those principles properly.

Also, be aware that relatively huge swings are not uncommon in STTs. With your sample size I'd certainly say that that your game has issues, but a significant portion of your downswing could also just be simple varience. Again, just from personal experience, there was a time a couple of months ago where I was at 75 STTs played for the month, and I was running 50+ BI below EV. Swings happen.

Anyway, keep at it, keep studying, and good luck.
 
nitulbhatia

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my advice is dont chase your losses, it may cost you more. Switch over to freerolls and earn some money playing poker and enjoy the game at the same time without a downside risk.
 
MadMaddie

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i think thats what i needed to hear. ill stick to freerolls for a bit and do more reading.
I don't think going back to playing freerolls is going to be of any benefit to you.
I am just starting out and I too have read Collin Moshmann's SNG Strategy book. I haven't played very much yet but I found the book to be very helpful in learning how to think in different situations.

I am not sure what I would do if I were in your spot and I hope I don't get there. I actually fear it a bit. I think that posting some HandHistories would be helpful to you and to others who read and comment on them. I know I get alolt from the ones I read. I am lucky to have an experienced poker player in my family who sometimes teachs and coaches a bit and they help me to go over certain hands I played that I wasn't sure about how to play them. Sometimes it can be confusing because there seems to be so much to learn but I think I keep getting better and this is my goal.
What is the link in your first post? I had no idea what it was and was scared to click on it.
 
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SPungey

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Oh its just a picture of my losses that i got from sharkscope.

Im going through my hand histories atm on sng wizard and pokertracker. But it seems pokerstars deleted most of them :(. Definitely gonna take a break for a few days anyway and just read.
 
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BlueNowhere

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My stategy is basically when the blinds are low, either raise with premium hands in any position, re-raise with AA,QQ,KK. Or limp or raise with speculative hands in late position with no pre-raises. Then when the blinds go-up i try to blind steal with a 3BB raise if im near the button, or in the SB. And if i get to below 10BB i either raise all-in with a good hand or try to steal blinds with an all-in raise. I use sngo wizard quiz to try and learn the pushing and folding ranges but im not sure if i have that sort of right or completely wrong.

I didnt place in about 30 games in a row yesterday so kind of pissed about that coz felt i was playing better the last 2 weeks but obviously not. So im guessing i should either start reading a lot more stuff or just quit ?

One leak found.
 
kidkvno1

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I started playing poker about 2 months ago. And im down about 260 euro since i started out of about 900 games. so obviously im a fish and theres something seriously wrong with my game. Only playing $1.50
sng on pokerstars. mostly 9man turbos but also some 18man turbos and the odd .50c 90man MTT

http://i.imgur.com/LwRsL.png

Ive read moshmans sng strategy a few times and i read various articles on the net about STT and sng, so i probably have the basics right i just wonder has anyone anything i should try to fix it.

My stategy is basically when the blinds are low, either raise with premium hands in any position, re-raise with AA,QQ,KK. Or limp or raise with speculative hands in late position with no pre-raises. Then when the blinds go-up i try to blind steal with a 3BB raise if im near the button, or in the SB. And if i get to below 10BB i either raise all-in with a good hand or try to steal blinds with an all-in raise. I use sngo wizard quiz to try and learn the pushing and folding ranges but im not sure if i have that sort of right or completely wrong.

I didnt place in about 30 games in a row yesterday so kind of pissed about that coz felt i was playing better the last 2 weeks but obviously not. So im guessing i should either start reading a lot more stuff or just quit ?
You really should not be playing turbo SNG's to start out with.
In my view turbos are shove or fold games, and yes i've played a few. They don't give you the time needed to build your stack.
 
Arjonius

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Over and over again in this and other forums, I see people who try to jog, run or even sprint before they know how to walk.

Turbos require more knowledge / ability than reg speed. You have to play more hands, so you end up facing more marginal situations. Plus you have to think faster. So learn to beat reg speed first, which will give you a foundation to build on if you still want to play turbos.
 
quintass

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One change you can make if you dont aleready do it is find the balls to stick it out with huge raisiers every once in a while. Go with your gut instinct as opposed to the academics of it all. Sometimes thats what it takes to take down that big pot.
 
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Pokertron3000

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You really should not be playing turbo SNG's to start out with.
In my view turbos are shove or fold games, and yes i've played a few. They don't give you the time needed to build your stack.

I dunno, I think turbos could be the perfect learning place. It gets to the meat and bones of the game faster. Every game becomes shove and fold at some point. (sng and mtt)
 
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Pokertron3000

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Over and over again in this and other forums, I see people who try to jog, run or even sprint before they know how to walk.

Turbos require more knowledge / ability than reg speed. You have to play more hands, so you end up facing more marginal situations. Plus you have to think faster. So learn to beat reg speed first, which will give you a foundation to build on if you still want to play turbos.

This is a more reasoned arguement for my last reply and while I do agree I see many people who could beat turbos struggle at standards.

I think personally 18 man and above standard is great but below is just wasting your time somewhat. Mainly because standard is becoming obsolete. Look at the lobbies higher up and they are dead and thats starting to be true for the turbs at the highest. We are a world of impatience and Oh HI hypers.........
 
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BlueNowhere

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Yep all action is at hypers, convert before it's too late.
 
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Pokertron3000

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Yep all action is at hypers, convert before it's too late.

Haha

Not my point at all. Saying that to start out at standard is old thinking though. Poker is a game of change. I keep reading all people had to do in the early 2000s was to log in to profit, different times. When I first started I watched a 10k husng where someone regged by accident and asked for a chop. What did the other guy say?

Lets just play.

Now your lucky if you get a 1k game where your not playing a skiiwalker. Fact is most people change over hyper for RB, prob fact is most peeps only play for rb.
 
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Pokertron3000

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Oh and dont start off at hypers/
 
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Out of interest, why have you chosen to play SnG and not cash games?

Don't play turbos yet either, you don't play more hands you play less, the blinds increase quicker, not the decision time.
Play regular speed games and play very tight and let the others drop out.
 
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The problem with poker is you dont get what you want. He has played 18 mans and above turbos. He is going to struggle playing standard games. This is the reason I commented on this thread. Lower the players you are facing and learn. Imo 18 man games are not the games to learn in, If your gonna drop that ammount especially and most of my games where 18 man standard speed. Playing a game for near two hours and not cashing is very frustrating and obviously he isnt suited to those games right now.
 
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tcummo

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Only been playing for 2 months?
It takes time and practice for poker strategy to 'sink in'.
knowing about 'the strategy's' is not the same as understanding
how to use them.
2 months is not enough time to become a winning player, (imo)
unless you are extremely lucky.
keep learning, play with good BRM.
If you're still losing in 2 years, then it might be time to quit.
Good Luck..
 
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I played sng's for a while and found them quite easy. Here is my basic sng strategy. It is MUCH tighter than most. It also gets in the money about 60% of the time. I focus on tight agressive play early, and becoming almost hyper agressive on the bubble and when you get in the money. This strategy is not perfect or complete, but it worked for me through $5 sng's. If you like it, try it.
Avoid turbos at all costs. The swings are bigger (for me).
Early levels -
super tight in every position. raise 3bb all pairs and AK (it is ok to fold 77 and under in the early positions if you want) (if players are bad, raise more with AA and KK)
Reraise and be willing to get all in QQ+ and AK unless a super tight player is raising, then fold the QQ and AK. Feel free to raise big at low stakes, you often get called.
In late position I just call raises, with 22-JJ.
If 2 or more players are in the pot for 4bb or less, call with suited connectors and Ax suited in the blinds or late position. (0f you are playing less than 30bb, do not call sc or AX suited)
Fold everything else, no matter how pretty it is.
After the flop, if you are the agressor, bet 2/3 pot to pot.
Turn and river require hand reading skills, but do not get there without the best hand if possible. If you have a big hand, and are not likely to be behind try to get all in, especially on the turn, when the idiot chashing a weak draw still thinks he will get lucky. If at any time you feel you are behind - fold. Never chase in the early stages of a sng. You cant win from the rail.
Mid stages -
usually 1/2 of the field is gone at this point. Your primary goal is to get in the money, so avoid difficult situations. If short stacked (<30bb) play big pairs and AK very agressively. I would almost always raise 22+ at thit point with 20bb or more. If you get raised with JJ or less fold. Yes, it feels weak, but you cant win if you are out of the game. Most players will reraise you with TT+, AJ, AQ, and AK. You will not be a big favorite if the money goes in with less than QQ. Like earlier folding AK and QQ to NITTY players is ok.
It is also time to steal. any 2 cards Ten or higher on the button, and any otherwise playable hand is worth a raise of 3bb. If the blinds are frequent defenders you may need to play tighter than I suggest, or be ready to go to war with a modest hand. I prefer tight with a small stack and loose with a big stack.
If you have a big Ace or TT+ reraise to defend your blinds, fold AQ, and <QQ to all in if you started the hands with more than 20 bb.
Money bubble:
If you are the chip leader (often he case here) open raise very often with any 2 high cards, any pair, and on every button. If somone else raises and you are not in the blinds, fold all marginal or weak hands.
If you are a medium stack, look to raise whenever you think you can steal. Contimue to play good hands agressively.
If you are getting short stacked: 2 strategies I employ depending on if the players defend or fold their blinds.
1. Defenders: look for hands you are willing to get all in with and shove them. Hands like AJ+, JJ+ and if on the button, or in the sb (1st in) any 2 high cards, just open shove. I also add suited connectors from 78s up on the button.
Folders: Min raise the above hands, and small pp. Fold weak hands to action. If you get below 12bb revert to above stratagy.
in both cases remember you want to get in the money: so do yuor opponents, many become passive: this is where I turn up the agression.
Late stages, in the money and all or 2 players are short stacked with high blinds.
Small stack: I use the same strategies as short stacked in mid stages: be more willing to shove any big Ace, 2 broadway cards, and any pairs. You will lose here unless you can steal often or double up.
Medium stack or chip leader: use your stack as a weapon: raise every Ace, 2 big cards or pair. Raise every button. If unopened, raise every sb (unless BB likes to shove defend). Be willing to 3bet and 4bet all in with any hand you would consider calling if a short stack enters the pot because losing 10 bb is not much worse than losing 4bb. You may get some bad folds as well.
If I can get away with stealing with min bets, I will because they represent a good portion of the short stacked players chips.

Heads up -
At this point I have a goof feel for how my opponent plays the game. If he is tricky or observant it is time to get creative. I'll leave that to you. Against many players, I just raise every hand until he reraises. I then fold weak and shove strong. Dont forget to change gears as soon as your opponent seems to catch on to your plan. If blinds are really high (effective stacks <12bb) I shove every playable hand. Sometimes every hand. It is amazing how often people fold. If they call, you are often a 2:1 dog. That is not that bad.
 
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GWU73

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Sorry for the typo's, you dont want to know where I am typing this from.
 
trucker103

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Only been playing for 2 months?
It takes time and practice for poker strategy to 'sink in'.
knowing about 'the strategy's' is not the same as understanding
how to use them.
2 months is not enough time to become a winning player, (imo)
unless you are extremely lucky.
keep learning, play with good BRM.
If you're still losing in 2 years, then it might be time to quit.
Good Luck..

with the swings in poker u can have a great stretch and then just hit the wall also
u have to know when ur hot and when its time to lay low !
 
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