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mrmood6007
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yeah, this is what happens with a lot of beginning poker players when they start-off. Remember, your kicker is equally as important as having top pair, because a lot of the time it will come down to who has the higher kicker, and you often end up calling all the way down with top pair and losing because of your kicker. Just remember, don't over-value top pair and you will be fine. In essence, play less hands with A rag or K rag.
Salty Mouse
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I'll try to dig some up some specific scenarios when I have time. It appears to happen all around the table. Situations like being in the big blind with, say, K-10 suited or being allowed to limp in with such a hand, pairing my K on the flop, then either being able to call somebody's not-cost-prohibitive bets on the flop and turn, or them calling my relatively low or moderate bets. Sometimes I'll probe with a bigger bet or re-raise, and they'll call.
c9h13no3: I already feel like I fold too much. If I "stop playing hands that can be outkicked," what exactly do I play? And what's particularly frustrating about this recent run, is the bets I'm calling are small enough that you'd think it's the correct play to stay in with top pair.
Salty Mouse
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Thanks for your substantive help in the "Learning Poker" forum. *rolleyes*
Shufflin
Visionary
Silver Level
Using your KT example...
You have to think of what you are hoping for when you limp in with this. If one of these cards flops, you are hoping for someone to have K9/QT or worse. Or you are hoping to flop two pair or a straight, which is quite unlikely.
It looks like a nice hand, with 2 big cards, but you usually wanna fold it. You might steal with it, or shove with it when blinds are high; but for post-flop play, it is a tricky hand at best.
You have to think of what you are hoping for when you limp in with this. If one of these cards flops, you are hoping for someone to have K9/QT or worse. Or you are hoping to flop two pair or a straight, which is quite unlikely.
It looks like a nice hand, with 2 big cards, but you usually wanna fold it. You might steal with it, or shove with it when blinds are high; but for post-flop play, it is a tricky hand at best.
c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
While I suspect there's some truth to c9's response that you're probably not folding enough (because let's face it, it's true for most players including myself) there are a couple of other things you can think about.
Mostly we're talking about speculative hands that are looking to do better than top pair - small to medium pairs and connectors are the obvious candidates. They present their own difficulties because you need to be able to get away from them when they don't hit or when they only hit something weak and you need to know when you're getting the right odds to continue on a draw. But flopping sets or strong draws can earn you some money, especially against the types of players who are currently outkicking you and can't get away from top pair.
Keep in mind that widening your range to those sorts of hands isn't appropriate for all game types too. In SnGs in particular effective stacks are rarely deep enough to play hands like this speculatively. There are other ways and spots to widen your range in those games but that's a different discussion entirely...
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Wrathhammer
Rising Star
Bronze Level
If you're looking down at a hand, the first thing to do is to think about what you're hoping to get with it. With a hand like KT or Q8, you're generally only going to be involved in a pot with people holding suited connectors, hands that have you outkicked, or pocket pairs.
The best you're hoping for is to be the only person holding your big card, to flop the some miracle two pair or boat, or to make some lucky straight or flush which will be quite rare with cards with as large gaps as these.
So yeah, fold these ones more - half your losses will be when you miss the flop with 'em and the other half will be when you hit it
The best you're hoping for is to be the only person holding your big card, to flop the some miracle two pair or boat, or to make some lucky straight or flush which will be quite rare with cards with as large gaps as these.
So yeah, fold these ones more - half your losses will be when you miss the flop with 'em and the other half will be when you hit it
TylerN
Kool-Aid & Frozen Pizza
Silver Level
that's probably close to one of the best tips you have gotten so far *im 18 and more mature than you*
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fx20736
Legend
Silver Level
KT is a late position hand so if you're playing this from EP/MP you are putting yourself in a bad spot.
don't limp until you know what you're doing. If the hand is not good enough to raise then fold.
Don't go broke with a single pair.
I doubt if you're folding 'too much'. If you have PT3 post your details screen.
I fold about 85% of my hands preflop.
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swingro
Legend
Silver Level
You are not folding too much. This is the basic of poker. Play the hands that have a real potential after the flop. Monsters likeAA, KK, QQ strong hands like JJ, TT, AK, AQs , and speculative hands like suited connectors or pocket pairs. The premium hands are verry strong and they are verry likely to hold when you are heads-up with someone. Problem with this hands is that you have to raise hard preflop to eliminate the limpers and if someone calls he is likely to miss the flop and fold postflop when you bet for value. But than again. They have the power to dominate hands like AJ, AT, KJ, KT and the donk that called with KQ your preflop hard raise with AK is likely to give his stack if a K hits the board. Even if a Q hits the board you still have outs but you have to check to control the size of the pot.
The speculative hands like suited connectors have 2 strong qualities. You can make flushes or streights and in multiwaypots where you can see a flop cheaply you will crush the table when you hit.
The pocket pairs have the potential to make sets. Again in multiwaypots it is carnage when someone hits a set.
Playing only this kind of hands it is not folding too much. It is saving money for the hands where you can value bet. Trying to get lucky is donk play.
PS. You do not have to bluff at small stakes. Patience and w8 for the hand where you can value bet. At cash tables it is not like when you play tournes and you are pressured by the blinds. If for an hour you do not have hands to play than do not play. Do not try to make something to happen. This is a mistake and you will loose money. If i have to count all the money lost because of the wrong calls when i should had folded untill i've learned my lesson, i think the profit i've made in the short time since i've learned poker is only 1/10. Count the chips you save by folding the marginal hands in a day of play and you will see something incredible.
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pokerman27
Visionary
Silver Level
NineLions
Advanced beginner
Silver Level
It's even cheaper if you just fold preflop.
Exception would be a free flop in the big blind. This does not include completing the small blind.
Atticus22
Rock Star
Silver Level
it also depends on the type of game you're in: ring, tourney, freeroll?
stakes? micro--low---medium---high?
obviously, it will be a donk-a-thon in a freeroll or low-stake ring where no one gives a dam about kickers.
you can take more of a risk at a 6-man table. position is a factor also.
but if playing higher stakes, I would not call with a crap kicker.
stakes? micro--low---medium---high?
obviously, it will be a donk-a-thon in a freeroll or low-stake ring where no one gives a dam about kickers.
you can take more of a risk at a 6-man table. position is a factor also.
but if playing higher stakes, I would not call with a crap kicker.
Hofmaster
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I would play just a small range of hands at the beginning of your poker career. Look if your opponent in this hand is a loose player or is he a tight player. You got top pair with a weak kicker and you got raised or reraised you can fold or raise if you know which kind of player he is and so his range of hands is.
